A bit of a premature judgment, IMO Sky. We'll know for certain in 12-20 years IMO. Excess is just becoming a matter of public attention. Subsim is a bit of a skewed place for casting judgment on a whole country. IMO, America really starts to shine when the boot is stepping on her throat. Everything before that is politics. Which I suppose is embodied in that Churchill quote.

PD

Once again, we were in a boom, and a very strong one. Unemployment was on a record-low, exports boosting, there was more work than we had skilled workers. Not even the high oil price was able to kill the boom, just slowed it a bit. And then came Wall Street. mortage crisis. Credit crush, picking away at the exports. Voilá, there we are in the deepest recession since the founding of Germany. thanks, but no thanks.

And it is not just Germany. It is all the globe America has pulled with itself into the abyss.

Yes, it has been America'S fault this time, beyond any doubt, known since years. And we - especially Germany - told you so since three years, and warned for the need of safeguarding agaisnt it by reducing the freedom for abuse and casino-gambiling by those that were protected by Washington - and still are - and then, surprise-surprise, did what they were to be expected, and ruined the show for all. The deeply unhealthy financial policy of America, its enormous defict, its enormous trade disbaöance, its enormous dependency on foreign finacial drips since it live totally and completely beyond its means - all this has caused the mess we now are in, and still we here america's model is well, and the greatest, and regulations serving as safeties shall not be added to it to correct at least the worse flaws and faults in the system.

You have no right to be in a huff. But we have all legitimate reason and right there is to be very angry with you. and even now, while the drama starts to unfold in all its glory (so far we have had the overture only), America seem to be too stubborn to learn and to reflect about itself and to see that the old ways can no longer be seen as valid ways again. the same business practices that led to the first credit crunch, now are unfolding a new phase of suprime crisis, right now. That is what your laissez-faire leads to, and your self-regulating market: the got away with it the first time, so now they do it again. If they were successful with betraying the community and absuing the flaws of the system - why should they give up such personally lucrative practices, if no rules and supervision is hindering them?

Yes indeed, Neral, this time it is America's fault, and that'S why I - and many others! - pojnt finger at you in anger, becasue not only did you damage yourself - you also caused massive damage to us, damage for which we are not responisble, but you and you alone.
your great fantastic business model encourages human faults and flaws taking advantage by abusing the holes in your system. It triggers them, and produces them. And you stubbornly defend against closing these holes, and called that repair a "planned economy". The simple truth is: your system failed, and very costly.

12-20 years for what? And I am talklijg about the economic basis of your country only, not the whoole country like culture, mentality, science, arts. But economically, it is a mess, and causes havoc in others as well. Just think of this economic cancer used as a weapopn, called hedge fonts. Even minimal supervision for these had been repelled by Washington, and so they move on, ruining healthy companies, and leave them behind as hulls with high debts and all blood sucked out. Hedge fonts should not be reglated - they should be forbidden since they villate every reason andaegument for healthy economics. Destroying healthy parts of economy is not in the interest of anyone except those gamblers hoping to mkae a profit by killing a company and rob the dead or too-weak-to-resist corpus.

Fate may have mercy with us if chruchill was right. That american strategy he describes may easily prove to be too costly for us, our civilisation, and our planet.why always waiting for destater having taking place, and then repairing and clenaing up? why not trying to safeguard against it in advance, to prevent it? does one always need to die first - just to accept that one had been in danger to one's life?

A national conscious to emerge on the issue of market regulation. It hasn't even been considered by more than a handful of people until recently.

And if you think hedge funds are bad, credit default swaps are several times more vile.

Our (bloated) financial system funds our (and the world's, to a degree) economy. Everybody was holding crappy assets, and got caught. Only a few people realized how bad it was, and all these people held off on that realization in the interest of profit. You can only fudge your P&L for so long.

PD

P&L? What'S that?

Because a few people get far too rich off it before everybody else gets pissed off. And it may well take another major war to sort out.

The American populace is certainly not the only one in the world to be overly complacent. What makes us unique is that we are one of a few (realistically, the only one in a conventional war) that presently has the power to change the world through force.

PD

Sorry, I was referring to a company's profit and loss sheet.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-pr...-statement.htm

PD

Yeah, right :rotfl:

Yes Neal, simply this: right. You have no reason to laugh at all.

If the German members here are an accurate representation of the average German voter, then the German education system has much to answer for.

To be an arrogant race is one thing, but to be stupid and arrogant is dangerous and leads to the kind of nonsense posted in this thread.

I'm sure there are other Forums better suited to your gifts, Skybird, and where the intellect level might be low enough for people to buy into your BS.

Do us all a favor and try one.

hey ! i guess thats where Subman should go too:rotfl:

Do yourself a favour , and grow.

The greatest arrogance there can be is to mess it up for all others - and afterwards still risking a big mouth how great and wonderful one is, and to demand those who one does damage to fall to their knees and be uncritical and eternally thankful for it. The american banking model dominated the world business routines in this field, and caused the greatest accident known since WWI. that means it is a failure of the american model. and to quote the german federal president from just two or three days ago: by damage and consequence the financial crisis is more dangeorus and threatening than international terrorism is. And you great and holy and innocent ones still want to lecture the world about that we should run things your way after you spelled desaster onto yourself, and on us as well!? You deserve getting spanked.

When it comes to talking about arrogance, you should remain tight-lipped and with a shameful red flush in your face. America damaged the world with this year's stunts and their introduction in the past years - not the world damaged America. Of all problems the world has today, America has now emerged to be the biggest, blocking improvements on several others as well.

Thank You TDK1044, finally somebody found some clear words for this ridiculous bull**** and I completly agree with your point of view!

It´s always easy to blame somebody else for their own problems. The question now is not longer what has gone wrong and who is responsible for this, the question is how we can get ourselves out of that ****. I don´t know the answer to that question, but I do know that pointing the finger on somebody to blame won´t help anybody.

Cheers,
Michael

"...and the customers whose single innocent error was to be lured by great profit rates..."

That says it all. Sounds like greed is universal. We Americans must have brought it with us from the "Old country (ies)".

Definitely agree there. We need to get to the root cause and prevent it from happening again. If we find any scapegoats, we'll send them to a country club prison for white collar crime. The real people responsible are too smart to get caught anyway.

I'm not an expert, but from my chair it looks fairly simple.
=======================================
Joe the worker buys a house for $400,000.

Bank loans Joe $400,000.

Bank now reports asset of $400,000.

Housing bubble pops.

House is now worth $200,000.

Joe the worker stops making payments.

Even after the foreclosure, bank now only has $200,000 asset to cover $400,000 loss in loan.

Multiply that by a few million times......
===================================

Of course it's more complicated than that. That $400,000 asset in a fractional reserve system created more money out of thin air. So when Joe defaulted, it wasn't only the $200,000 loss, but everything else that it created. Start factoring in credit swaps, derivatives, etc...

= chit sandwich. Of course you know in America, we had to supersize it then add bacon and cheese. Go ahead, take a bite. All of us will eventually.

I don't mind being on Skybird's chitlist. I bet at one point in time, all of us are members. Healthy debate is good, sometimes even fun. It's even more fun when you ask him a question he can't answer. :doh:

Just like a dysfunctional family where the kids blame "Ma and Pa" for their problems...:yep:

difference is though, most of the time..problems can be traced back to the parents.
America isnt to blame for everything

Besides, America is the kid and the rest of the world are the parents:rotfl:

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Let me throw a wrench into Skybirds socket here and see if he can answer this one:

Using your logic, I guess the US can also be credited with Germany's economic boom too then, no?

You blame the bust on us, so the boom must also be us. Simple logic applied to the works of a simple mind of SB.

-S