I also don't see a problem with this. And this is no doubt a response to an actual problem. "Gay" and "fag" are the "cool" words to throw at people these days. These things spread like crazy around schools. Of course it should firstly be the parents' responsibility to keep this controlled, but I don't see why schools can't have some involvement in it, either. I know back when I was in school, I'd get a slap on the back of the head from parents and teachers alike if I went around throwing words like this.

I am opposed to promoting "LGBT lifestyle" in schools, but I really don't see why kids shouldn't be alerted to the fact that using these names in the playground is wrong. And you can't keep kids completely sheltered. If a word like this goes around schools - stop them, before it gets pretty much just fixed into their vocabulary.

did I get this right? This took place in a Kindergarten...?

I don't know how it is in America, but in Germany Kindergärten are filled with 2-5 year old.

5-year-olds it was.

You'd be surprised how many young kids I hear constantly calling each other "gay" around here, though.

No, I wouldn't, but it is talking about stuff they snapped up, not stuff that they really know and understand. Same is true for that toylike treaty they had to "sign". It is beyond the mental horizon of that age, and treating little kids like small adults is - well, I bite my lips.

Hear me out a minute: I am not ignorant, nor am I a (insert any counterculture tag)-phobe. I gave up on the church I was raised into, for reasons too numerous to take up bandwidth here. 4-6 year olds, adding the caveat, that are being raised by their parents, should not have certain words in their vocabulary. I know for a fact that hatred is a learned behavior, along with sharing and responsibility. I don't know about you, but a school's number one priority is to educate. Would it not be irresponsible for an institution whose main goal is to teach, just "ban" words without giving their definition? So, if you tell a 5 year old that saying "fag" is not nice (which I agree with) but, do not instruct a child of the word's meaning, is that not in fact a grave omission of the educator's duty to educate? Telling someone that they will not say the word "jujubee" without giving them the definition of the word is just outright censorship rather then have them develop a moral system that will give them the choice to preclude said word.

It's the definition of the word "fag" that would be taught to a 4-6 year old that enrages me.

Your post confuses me. You said it's right to explain why certain words are not allowed fully but you are enraged by a young kid would be given the definition?

Then take your kid out of public school. That is your right. Just as it is my right to tell you that the age of hard headed age of hate has ended.

This is exactly my point.
These kids weren't signing a legally binding document. It was more a symbolic kind of thing used as a teaching tool. This should not even BE an issue. :nope:

You are right and I should have broken it down some more.

Why is it even brought up in the first place? Shouldn't this be taught at home? I do not expect my child to learn that hatred is wrong from a school. That is a parents job. If a child uses a word that is inappropriate, address it then through the definition system. My thing is why take a proactive approach to a problem that should be addressed at home?

Remember these are 4-6 year olds.

Ahhh Zach....

You are right, I do not have my child in public school. Yet 65% of my property tax bill goes to public school funding. So I'm penalized for wanting my child to have a private education. One who has to show a performance level, but does not get mandated by the nanny state to take out the pledge of allegience or offer condoms in grade school. Still I have to pay twice for this silliness. BTW, where are you going with the "age of hard headed age of hate?"

It's brought up in school because there's a demonstrated need for the schools to address it. You should expect a school to teach hatred is wrong especially when hatred at school becomes an obstacle for schools to perform their primary task. The reasons to take a proactive approach are obvious:

1. By preventing the issue before it happens you avoid the emotional damage that such actions bring.
2. Using a punishment-based method has negative side effects.

The idea that "it's a parent's job" is irrelevant if a parent is not doing it. It needs to get done and if the parents don't do it then the schools must. Letting the behavior go unchecked is not practical. It is not the right of a parent to let either their wayward child damage others or to let their child be damaged by undo exposure to hate at school. If at any time you thought it was, you were misinformed.

Also your taxes going toward public education is not a punishment but rather the cost that you pay to live in a society surrounded by people who have had access to education. This is the benefit for the tax money you pay whether you have any direct use of public education or not. Make no mistake, adults with no children still benefit from the public education system.

You know what, maybe if parents took a more active role in their child's life and did the right thing, maybe our juvenile court system would not be overburdened. It is a sad commentary of society today that valuable time is taken out of lessons to address hatred of any kind. I don't remember at any level of my educational experience that addressed treating others with respect and dignity. My mother and father took care of that, and I thank them still to this day.

Oh yeah, the benefits of tax money for public education: metal detectors in all entrances of Chicago public high schools. Off duty police for security. For terrorist attacks, no, because the little savages were never told right and wrong from their parents. Yet you argue that its the school's responsibility to address this. Obviously, its not working out too well.

I still lay the fault with the parents. The good ones get punished while the bad ones get free child care.

And I'm not sure where childless property owners benefit from the public education system, I thank you F, for the stimulating interlocution.

If you wanted to argue that parenting should be better I'd be happy to join in but we're going to need someone to take up an opposing view ;) While I would agree that some public education dollars are not used with 100% correctness, I can't say it's all a waste.

What I meant about education dollars helping people indirectly is that funding for schools is like an investment in the human infrastructure of our society which benefits all.

Likewise been good discussing it with you. I even had to look up interlocution. Realize that my viewpoints are not as extreme as my arguments laid out but I merely take up such a one sided viewpoint when engaging in these kind of 1 v 1 debates.

In my honest opinion, I dont think that 4-6 year olds should do this. Honestly, most kids that age dont even know what those words meen. At that age they shouldnt even be thinking about any thing like that. They should be concentrating on getting them to be good students, and transitioning them to school. I remember back when I was in kindergarden, almost none of us knew about gays and same sex relationships. (most of us didnt even know all of are numbers and letters yet) To be honest with you, some of the teachers I had shouldnt even have been teaching, If I had kids I wouldnt want them teaching my children about this. They should be concentrating on math, writeing, reading, and teaching them to act like humans instead of wild animals. I have much more to say about disiplin, but thats not what this topics about.

(I hope I dont make anyone not like me, this is my honest opinion)

The problem is that there are way too many parents out there who DON'T teach this. I'll reiterate. Kids are never too young to learn this lesson. The earlier either the parents or school starts teaching them about this stuff, the better. It's far easier to teach them young than waiting till they're older and set in their ways. This kind of teaching has no negative impact. If the kids are learning a positive thing, what's the problem ? This lesson was more about tollerance and behavior than anything else and I speak from past experience. A LOT of kids do NOT get this from home.
That lesson was not about teaching anything complicated about human relations. It was more a behavior control thing as said in the post above. They wouldn't teach it if they hadn't had a problem with it in the past.

Yea, I see what you meen, Now if they can get them to control the rest of there issues. Heres what happens.

Elementary school> kid is rude and makes fun of other kids, elementary school allows this to happen> Elementary school sends there slime over to middle school and they do nothing about it> high school gets these people, and dose little to nothing to them and sends them to the world to cause chaos and be worthless.

Trust me, Ive been putting up with this school stuff for 11 years, and I have been pushed around for all of those 11 years, now if they would have done something about this in elementary school then it would more than likely not be happening now to me and numerious other kids. So there is actualy some good that could come out of this.:-? But then again, it may not sink in. (go in one ear and out the other)

Instead of just putting up with it did you ever think of fighting back?
The way to stop a bully is to stand up to him. They can't be social engineered out of existence, any more than can greed or lust, or loyalty or friendship, or any other human trait good or bad.

IMO Schools should confine themselves to teaching regular subjects like reading, writing and mathematics. I see way too many high school graduates unable to do these things on the most basic levels. Leave the social engineering tasks to the parents where it belongs.

Ya know, Ive thought about that. But they have all there friends in there classes and Id have 6+ people jumping me at once.:shifty: I can deal with 3 but not a half a class. (almost happend last friday.):-? Had me in a corner of the class.:shifty:
(So far I have been choaked, jumped, shoved, hit, spit on, threatend, been called 1000s of names over 11 years. And the schools dont care 1%)

Everyone here brings up solid thoughts to the topic except, I won't mention any handles. It's a threefold discussion: 1. I believe you do far greater harm to the development of a child when you just tell them they are doing wrong, without an explanation. To correct a child's behavior you need to address the action, describe why it is wrong and then come up with an alternative solution to correct the bad behavior. To tell a child that using the word "gay" is offensive, just does not cut the mustard. You have to tell them why and what it means. THATS the problem I am having with this. In order for you to address this problem you have to explain what "gay" is. Therein lies the problem, because you must delve into a subject that 4-6 year old is not ready for. 4-6 can start dealing with the concept of death, differentiation of sexes and races, but it's a large can of worms that even the well intentioned should not open up.

2. It becomes the nanny state's problem to raise our children. I bust my a$$ to make sure my child gets everything they need, whether it's material, my time, or lessons in values, morality, and life. I have seen too many kids get locked up for horrific actions against others. I've seen parents sent to parenting classes as part of their conditions for probation on child abuse cases. It throws my mind. Because of this, my child would get subjected to things in school that they have already learned at home. A remedial golden rule class if you will. A waste of time unfortunately.

3. Why didn't the parents have a say in this. Get their input and inform them why this course of action should be taken. Since it is not part of the normal curriculam should they not have a say so?

I thought about saying what I'd have done in that situation, but it'd just get you in trouble if you did it.

If a school does not take any action, have you and your parents (I'm not trying to be ignorant, I am assuming you are under 18?) go to the police. Explain to them what has happened and that you have informed the school, but they never took any action and, if under 18, let your parents inform the officers that you would like to take them criminal court.