Yes, I was not able to go deep into different winds at different altitudes thing, although I considered it. what I found was the moving radar maps of rain in our weather services, and by that and the fact that a stormfront is moving into Germany coming from the norethSea, NW, I conclude that there is a general wind direction of NW to SE - the rain is moving from the upper left to the bottom right corner of the animated radar map.

Well, I am not qualified to assess this variable in all professionalism though. Could very well be that I see it too simple.

I don't know much about European weather, but my guess is that if it was a front was moving through that the upper winds would also be generally NW to SE. Sorry I can't help more, but my wife and sister are the real weather geeks.

If you are sure of the speed of these things then maybe not meteorites, but FYI the Orionid meteor showers begin in October and from your local they would be seen best looking in a southerly direction.

Even though this is not topic for this, It kind of relates to this topic.:D http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081003/...ronaut_s_diary Anyone remember the space shuttle Columbia.;)

I was going to say at first get a cat scan on the brain as seeing bright lights can be early signs of a brain tumor. But then i saw the pictures you put up, so dont worry about that scan it wont be needed.

Sometimes meteorite storms can be seen with the naked eye, although far out in space they show up as lights moving very fast.

Im pretty much open minded with UFO's I think they are out there.

Well I saw a trail of light about two nights ago. It went really fast, barely saw it happen, yet it looked orange. I thought it was some sort of space debris or a mini-meteorite burning up in the atmosphere.

You do realise that this looks very similar to how the Jules Verne (ESA ATV) burnt up in the atmosphere? It could have been some left over debris from it, or from some other space flight?

I have yet to find the answer to the formation you saw. It could be possible, that it was just the angle from which you saw it. It might have been closer together, like a clump, yet from a different angle looked like a formation?

I'm sure it was something innocent. Just don't go to the police, or they'll tell they were only "meteorological balloons". :lol:

This sounds like a meteorite shower to me. As it was in the west and in early
October, I would bet it was the start of the Draconid shower, although there are 2
other major showers this October and numerous weaker ones. All are visible.

You might want to check with your local observatory.

One would expect a meteorite shower not to behave like a long string of sportplanes, I assume, and not moving at constant altitude. I can't get it together with that theory.

Assume you see a sportsplane in the sky like it often happens, and at a range that you can clearly see wings, body, tail. The speed of that plane moving roughly matches what the orange dots were moving at. The were not cluttered, I'm sure, but appeared in a long string, best a double column, each following roughly in the path of those in the lead. I indeed looked like slow motion of tracer, with non-regular spacing.

I have meanwhile called the airport. they reconnected me three times and with whom and where I talked of in the end, I canot say with confidence. Thy said they know of nothing, and told me about those flying lantirns. I would be willing to accpe that, but I also told them abut the plane banking turning sharp to the left. and here they immediately turned icy and cut the talk short and ended it. That could be becaue the pilot sqaw something. It could be becasue he did that manouver and it was non-routine, but for a very different reason they wish to hide. It could be becasue they think I anted to give them a bad name.

I also called a frined, who called somebody who knows somebody, and finally I was talking with a guy from the Wilhelm-Förster Sternwarte in Berlin. He said that for last night no cosmic pohenomenons, like swarms of shooting stars or meteorite swarms were expected in europe. He also said that it would look different in colour and speeds.

However, i want this thing sorted, and do not wish to leave it as an UFO thing, so I am willing to go with the lantirn-theory, and the contradictions I see probably due to lacking knowledge and understanding of weather behavior of mine.

http://www.westfaelische-nachrichten...vw=lok-bor-bor

Sometimes fog, mist, a cloud, or an airlayer of special density which also holds pollution can act as a cinema screen, so that powerful lights projected form elsewhere (F.e. Lasers from a Disco, fireworks, etc.) form strange results there. Reverberation of light in the atmosphere has sometimes such effects.

Judging from your pictures it seems to me possible that those are just reflections in the air of something originated elsewhere (Though of course you have seen them moving and might judge the pattern better).

As I alredy said, definitely no light reflections, also no fata morgana or something. the things were visible in a region of the sky that held no clouds, but showed the stars. It also was far too bright in contrast, and too clear an image. I know what you mean, we have it being done at times of public festivals. But last night was not of that kind, definitely.

I mentioned also air layers, a very dense hot air layer can cause reflection. For example, you can many times see over a very hot place (Desert, the bach in summer) how the light gets somehow deformated and reflected. In twilight conditions this may also cause reflections :hmm:

Certainly a strange thing you saw there, but I also agree that there must be a logical explanation. I bet this is one of those things that when you know what happened, you laugh at yourself for its simplicity.:88)

Kong-Ming - that name worked wonders. i consider the issue being solved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_lantern

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/404...01e928fzv2.jpg

http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/8...7cf3cbcby1.jpg

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/277...41fda8azv1.jpg

http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/9202/kongmingqs4.jpg

I see more pro than contra in this explanation, and the colour matches perfectly. the rest of doubts I must see as beiung caused by me not sufficiently knowing the many forms and variations in which weather can unfold, and namely: wind.

I have no idea what you saw, but is it possible that the lights could have been meteorites skipping off of the earth's atmosphere?

It is possible for cosmic debris to be rent asunder by gravity wells, staying more or less in a linear formation in order of density, or close to it. the angle at which they are observed can affect the speed with which they appear to move, and perhaps it is possible that they were moving only slightly faster than you were at the time, relative to the speed of the Earth.

Honestly, I have no idea what those lights are, but I'm always hesitant to acknowledge the presence of UFOs or government cover-ups involving the same.

For one thing, governments aren't that good at keeping secrets. Or at least the U.S. Government isn't. I don't know about Germany. U.S. security has a history riddled with holes and intelligence leaks.
I'm also not too fond of the typical Hollywood scene where there are UFOs (or information about them) being kept in a secret base or bunker or whatever and you see all these stern-faced military guards patrolling the area.
I hate to bring up another war story, but I don't have a lot of allegorical examples that aren't related to the military, almost a third of my life thus far was spent there. I was a Field Radio Operator, so naturally I had to deal with cryptographic material and other "Secret"-level materials. Not that we could keep a secret for 10 fricking seconds:roll: . During the first 5 years of my enlistment my unit alone managed to "misplace" two Crazy-10 crypto devices (aha! I'm not so loose-tounged that I'm going to tell you the real designation:p ) and completely lose another one.

We couldn't even manage to keep operational plans secret when we were briefed on them less than 24 hours prior to their execution. When we were briefed for Operation Southern Fire we were strictly forbidden to discuss anything we heard in the briefing. It was supposed to be a surprise because the target city had minimal military presence and we had been informed that it insurgents were flocking to the place.
We were briefed at 10 a.m. When I went to the chow hall at 1p.m. an Iraqi cook wished me "Good luck in your attack tonight":roll: Seriously, what the hell? I doubt there was a soul in Camp Fallujah who didn't know about it, and that means that there wasn't an insurgent in Al-Anbar that didn't know about it either.

That's to say nothing of all the times I've heard other marines trying to talk up some girl in a bar by telling them about all the really cool secret stuff we do.
In detail. (this Forum needs a facepalm emoticon)


Secondly, I don't see a lot of motivation for keeping UFO secrets, unless some really sinister stuff was going on. I'm pretty sure that most politicians (and most military officers, who are generally little more than politicians) would leak information fairly quickly. Political types are always trying to get their names inscribed in the history books. What better way to ride a wave of public support than to be associated with a landmark event in human history? I mean, what's the alternative? Leave it secret for some other person to benefit from later? Either there is no definitive government knowledge of UFOs or the politicians entrusted with these secrets are the cleverest bastards in the world, contrary to all appearances, which would make them even more clever:hmm: . I'm not inclined to believe the latter.


All that being said, who knows what you saw? Perhaps those lights were some kind of military aircraft that they haven't managed to inadvertently expose to the public yet. Maybe it was some easily explainable phenomenon. And maybe they were extraterrestrial craft.:o

I still find that hard to believe though. What, we're being visited by aliens that have enough knowledge of interstellar travel (and possibly FTL technology) that can't manage to reconnoiter the planet without being observed? By the naked eye!? In that case, let them come. We don't have much to worry about. Of course, they could be probes. Not very advanced probes IMO, but they might be. Or maybe they want us to see them. Since that would hardly be a prudent military strategy, we can lean towards the assumption that they are friendly.


Btw Sky, this response isn't entirely directed at you. Just the part about meteorites. I know that you're too smart to assume the exsistence of UFOs based on an observation of something you can't explain. But, you're right about it being spooky. We all fear the unknown. We can always imagine something worse than what actually exsists. ( I hope:o :D )

On the E.T. hypothesis, here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...highlight=UFOs

That linear-spaceflight-from-A-to-B-with-high-speed-thing I do not buy, and never did.

Some remarks on recognising intelligence, what ironically is of relevance for UFO threads, religious threads on gods, and threads on creating AI by programming:

Man is not capable to recognize an intelligence that is above a certain meta-level or below a certain sub-level, compared to his own level. He can only recognise it by comparing it to what is within the realm of his own behavior and intellect. A higher developed intelligence he would perceive as chaos, and a lower intelligence he would miss as well, for both are outside his set of standards and scales to which he could compare. Which means in reverse that we must ask the question wether a higher intelliegnce itself - wether it be ET or a deity - would be capable itself to recognise us as a form of lower intelligence. Man has the very bad habit of attributing all cosmos to his own interest, to himself as being the general scheme that decides what is possible and what not, and man being the standard to which all cosmos must compare. Man antropomorphises what he perceives (or better: what he can perceive, and that range is limited), and where he cannot do that, what exists and is considered possible is ending in his thinking. But that is a very huge mistake, to assume that what bis of alien and different intelligent origin and quality necessarily must fulfill our expectations of what it should be like.

That is why the old argument: "If the ETs are already here, why haven't they then landed in the park before the white house meanwhile?" is a complete non-brainer for me. It is hilarious.

In the end, we project our own image onto the rest of the universe, and by that define it's shape and form, limits and possibilities. but that is not the realm nature of things - just our self-centred imagination.

If you want to understand, no: if you even want to have a chance to just realise that there is somethin totally alien and foreign, you have to give up trying to compare it to human standards - and giving up on that in complete totality (if that is possible).

seen that way most people do not even have a realistic understanding of what the term "alien" really means. They deal with their own imagination of what "alien" should look like. But the truth is it means an unlimited, baseless abyss of the unknown. It does not mean just human motives and thinking patterns dressed in "alien" costumes and an "alien" screenplay carried out on an "alien" stage.

Thats sounds like both of the meteor showers I have seen.
They move across the sky in straight lines at a steady speed and appear to be at a
steady altitude and often follow each other very closely.

Whatever it was...somebody has already written a song about it. :hmm:

http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=jQYQTF...eature=related

Yup, that's why I have always hated the films of extraterrestrians, they seem to always resemble simply mixes of things well known to humans. Perhaps the only reasonable film in that sense has been "Contact" with Joide Foster. The extraterrestrians do not appear externally as such, instead they clearly tell Jodie Foster that they asume a form that can be identified and understood by her. :hmm:

Here you get an exciting thriller with well described characters, and an alien intelligence that ranks amongst the most "alien" intelligences ever being described in film and book: on basis of a one-cellular life form.

Quite some thought went into this book. One of the greatest bestsellers in Germany ever. I read it twice withion two years (1000 pages)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Swarm-Novel-...3225337&sr=8-1

So Skybird,let me get this straight, the lights described a linear trajectory or was it more than an arch (the 22.5º I assume), coming from southwest to north east, opposite to wind direction, at least on your position? They were bright orange spots, with no traces , unlike those that apper on the shots, was there any way to know if they were moving above cloud level? They even could be above the earth's atmosphere, couldn't they be some ferrous or copper meteors, bouncing of the earths uppper atmosphere and the blue zigzags you've described electrical phenomena induced by metalic particles from this interaction?

Well, Mhz, what else could I describe that I haven't already? All questions you asked I already have adressed, and since I am willing now to accept the answer of sky lanterns, I see no reason to repeat it all again. ;) and again, the dots were dots - the pics are hand-shots with my hand moving, that's why they appear as small lines, or having tails. The pics only illustrate one possible pattern at which they were arranged in relation to each other.