Aye Aye Sir

I think it would be an fantastic journey

Markus

Why don't we let STEED test it :lol:

Nah! He would never come back to this Earth, at least not while the labor party is in charge! :D :p

-S

This theory has been around for quite a long time. The only catch is that it involves a type of energy (negative energy) that we have never detected before in nature but heck.. who knows...
We didn't know about dark matter/dark energy until recently so for all we know... negative energy could also exist. :hmm:

Indeed. I recall a group of German and French scientists (along with one Swedish fellow) that proposed the idea during the late 1980s.

No no no!, why do you think flying saucers are round and small, how can Grey's travel millions of light yrs in a craft that seem would run out of fuel on the first light yr? Well according to some writer i read many years ago in a science mag is that the Greys flying saucers are run on magnets and energy, no fuel. - they have worked out a system where the magnets make the craft fly very fast speeds 1000's of times faster than light they can get from one point to the next that might be 100,000 light yrs away in minutes. Flying or jumping from one galazy to another is nothing to them. In the middle of the craft is a set of magnets all faced in a circle pointing to the main core that sits in the middle. The craft has to be round for the magnets to work.:yep:

Well that's what i read, with it explained more scientifically than mine.

:roll:

Gravity man. Gravity. Grey run on Gravity. Control gravity, not only could you turn 90 degrees on a dime, but you would also avoid crushing the occupants of said craft.

-S

I've always been a proponent of that type of propulsion for ftl. I once asked a physics professor what the speed of gravity was;

"9.8 meters per second"

"No, sir, that's acceleration due to gravity on Earth in a vacuum. What is the speed of gravity itself?"

"I don't take your meaning."

"If we have an earth-sized object in a pure vacuum, and instantly introduce another earth-size object 100,000 miles away, how long would it take for their gravitational pulls to effect each other?

"Well, instantly, I suppose"

"What makes you say that?"

"Last I checked, we were working on inertia, why can't you ever ask topical questions?"


Maybe I like the sound of gravitic propulsion because I don't understand gravity, which makes as good an excuse as any for a sci-fi propulsion source.:D

If you can bend light with gravity, and even stop it and trap it, and you can rip open space with it, and you can manipulate time with it, why would it not be the ultimate propulsion system? You don't need to completely understand it to understand the emense power you would control if you had complete control over it. Small details like time travel and interdimensional doors being opened up are just a small neat thing you can learn about later. All you care about at first is directional travel, and pulling distant galaxies to you without actually moving them for quick travel.

-S

I agree somewhat, but my idea of harnessing the power of gravity is using gravitic bubble as one would use an electromagnet in an electric motor. Pulling distant objects towards oneself without causing a cataclysm would be much more difficult.

It seems a bit like some mathematicians' views of black holes. Even Steven Hawkings has suggested that, due to the singular nature of their gravity well, they could be used as wormholes. I'm no genius, but this seems absurd. Yeah, in a mathematical perspective a black hole creates an infinite "vortex", thus leaving a hole at the apex, but in reality a black hole is just a ball of superdense matter, no matter what its' gravitic signature is. The only effect of generating another black hole would be to create another ball of superdense matter that would instantly collide with black hole being used for "transport", and thus resulting in a slightly larger black hole.

On the other hand, if one could harness the power of a black hole, in terms of gravity, in the same way that we harness the nature of electricity ( like in an electric motor) by alternating polarities, the possibilities are limitless. Anti-gravity has supposedly been proven to exist by NASA, to a very small degree.

Until such forces are understood, I can make no real argument for this type of propulsion. However, remain optimistic that, like all forces of nature studied thus far, a useable theory will emrege.

We still don't completly understand wind, and yet that has been a source of energy for thousands of years, perhaps gravity will follow suit, or perhaps not.

Being as powerful a force as it is, I believe gravity may have some potential as a means of propulsion.

Of course, I would never support anything but private research into this possibility.

You are part way there. A micro singularity could be magnetically suspended and not affect anything except what you want to.

We are also not talking about pulling these galaxies towards you, but instead warping space/time to bring them towards you without you having to physically travel to it - kind of like folding up the carpet in ripples, and then laying it out again after you step to the other side of it.

Getting the picture now? With gravity, you can do this.

-S

As an academic and a professional researcher, I always stub my eye on the word "Proven".

I am not aware of any proof of anti-gravity. That does not mean that the proof is not out there though. Anyone got a citation of this proof?
I would be most interested in reading it.

I call bull$hit.

How can you fold nothing?

And the carpet analogy is a poor one. If you lay the carpet out, you are still moving yourself to stay at the end of it while you straghten it again.
Space-time is not a carpet that can be distorted at will.
Please tell me that I do not have to explain the special theory of relativity using the "beam of light orbiting the earth and reflecting bewixt two mirrors" example.

My argument is that gravity may be faster than light. After all, how long does it take the Moon's orbit to affect Earth's tides? None at all. Instant transmission of gravitic effect.

Naturally, we do not understand the reasons for such an instantaneous effect. Prhaps it is beyond our reach, or perhaps not.

Still, I would bet that we can harness gravity before we ever master the ability to bend "nothing"

At the last, I posit this; Lex Parsimoniae.

I know there are points of gravity neutrality which are known as Lagrange Points. And in a black hole, if gravity is so massive, does it fold over on itself and become anti-gravity? Just a thought.

-S

PS. There is a Lagrange point between the Earth and the moon at some point. Around 160,000 miles if I am not mistaken.

PPS. It is at 199,703 miles. I was close.

I guess it depends on the definition of anti-gravity.

Do we mean free from gravity?
or do we mean an opposing force (gravity-like) in an opposing vector?

But Lagrange Points have nothing to do with anti-gravity if the meaning of anti-gravity means no gravity. Lagrange Points deal with equalizing gravity in a theoretical three-body problem space (which incidentally does not exist in nature) where two of the bodies exercise forces upon the third body to the perceived (observed) effect that the third body is not being affected (observed in a vector quantity) by any one of the two bodies.

This is not anti-gravity but gravity from opposing vectors with the congruent resultant of no relative observed movement on the vector as defined by the two foci.

For there to be anti-gravity, we would be restricted to a two body problem space (which also does not exist in nature) where one body is, at the same time, attracting the second body (gravity) and repelling the second body (anti-gravity) with the observed result of the second body having no gravity effects (null gravity).

Gravity technicly moves at the speed of light (299,792,458 metres per second). It takes light about 9 minutes to reach us from the sun so if the sun suddenly dissapeared, the Earth wouldn't go flying away till about 9 minutes later.

Another fun fact about the speed of light (In extreme conditions): Black holes shoot out particles in jets at their poles due to their massive magnetic fields. Some of these particles are ejected faster than the speed of light and even travel backward in time as they go.

Give me links to sources that support these ideas and I will add you to the list of "smartest people I have ever not met".
Seriously.

It would resolve some questions that have been bugging me for a decade if the source is credible.

Please, plz plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz post links. With a cherry on top.

Okay... Here is a well done video that illustrates how it works really well. Go to the video called "A New Picture of Gravity" and watch it for the first several minutes. It illustrates what gravity is and how it works as well as the fact that the effects of gravity travels at the speed of light. Nice animations are done to show how everything works.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html

This whole program is up on this page and is very interesting if you're interested in string theory. It's about three hours and well worth watching. I'm not an advocate of string theory, but it does include some interesting ideas.

As for the particles flying out of the black holes traveling faster than the speed of light and backwards in time, that may take some more work as I read that in various books (Possibly Stephen Hawking's books and several others). I'll try to find a link describing it.

THANK YOU!

I'm setting tommorrow aside solely for watching this stuff. Unfortunately, I have to go to work soon, so I'll get back to you later via PM if that's ok.
Thanks again!:up:

That's okay. I read a LOT of books on this stuff.
If you want to research the particle/black hole thing, it deals with the theory of Hawking Radiation (Which we don't have the technology to actually detect yet). It involves the part of the theory where particle pairs are created near the event horizon. One regular particle and one anti-particle. One of them falls into the black hole and the other flies out. I've found a lot of articles about Hawking Radiation online, but none of them have gone into detail about the particles traveleing backward through time. I know I've read it in several of my books, but the maker knows which ones and I have a LOT. :doh: