no rush, i am just very interested in figuring this thing out because i think it could help fix a game flaw that connects to other things as well.

so do you think its the main zones file is where the key to fixing it will be? and if so will fixing it fix more than just the shokaku alone?

the reason i ask is the heavy cruiser maya will go decks awash like a submarine every time after only one torpedo then need 3 more additional torps to sink which is more than i would expect it to take but still not out of line, but the decks being awash after only one is not indicative of a ship that could take 2 more torpedos without sinking and need a forth to finish it off so i would imagine it has missing compartments too.

Well, not necessarily missing compartments as missing funtioning parts, like destructible screws and masts getting blown of. I'm shifting my attention to the "spheres" at the moment, haven't got a clue what those do yet. The compartments ("boxes") are all there, at least for engine rooms and bunkers and such. "boxes" seem to be for special effects, with their own separate attributes. From zones.cfg;

[BBEngineRoom]
Category=Engines Room
Multiplier=5.0 (damage multiplier? Could explain why it sinks at engine room hit)
Flotability=0.5
HitPoints=100
Destructible=No
Armor Level=-1
Critic Flotation=0.3
Critical=Yes (chance of destroying ship in 1 go)
Critical Chance=0.05 (that chance in %)
FloodingTime=120
CargoType=None
Crash Depth=30 (depth at wich compartment is destroyed)

Problem is, if you change this stuff, you change all warships. :damn:

You don't always hit one of the "boxes", so I guess that's where the "spheres" come in. Shokaku has 22 of these "spheres", compared to ~130 for Hiryu, which again seems to indicate something is missing.

I'm struggling, but I think I'm making progress. :-?

And no, fixing Shokaku does just that. New zones would have to be introduced for every ship that seems to be missing them. :cry:

The Spheres are what 'take' the hits.
If you have a box with no spheres?
You'll get no hit.
That's why DC's sometimes pass through a Sub's hull!!
It misses the sphere's!!
Each box should be filled with spheres of different sizes and placements
so to fill the box as best as possible.
that way you get the 'hit'.

:D
Spheres for collisions ...
For correct collisions, spheres should repeat precisely of ship figure and superstructure and masts too ...

Exactumundo!!
:up:

I finally figured that "spheres for collision" part out as well. Was just about to write here when I read it. :lol:
Thanks for the info, I'm hitting a brick wall at the moment. Weird thing is that I set all spheres to 0 radius but collision detection still works fine?!

So boxes determine special properties for specific parts of the ship and spheres are for collision?



Web; like I said, hitting a brick wall. Those zones don't seem to effect "flotability properties", so to say. Tried giving Shokaku "unique" parts, like an engine room only used by her that didn't multiplie damage, still sank like a brick. Came to the conclusion she's not sinking because of no HP left, but due to instability, which means it will go down no matter how many HP you give it.

Opened up ship's 3d model (basically skin, or hull), as well as the 3d damage model (what you see inside when you blow a hole). Can't make sense of it, I'm not a 3d modeler. Short of recreating NSM (change everything to rebalance) I wouldn't know what to do. I have no idea what determines the ships CG and the way she floats. :cry:

On the positive side; I think that, with some more practice, it should be possible to get screws and masts destructible like they should be. Even that would be an improvement IMO.

I really hope more poeple will give some input, I'm not about to give up but I don't have a clue what to try anymore.

at least you understand it better than i do.

here's a dumb question, if like you said the zones are shared by all ships and just coded for each ship, could you just copy all the stuff from a working version ship and recode it?

what i was thinking is could another ship be used as a guide or blueprint to finish the unfinished shokaku file?

or what about this as a fix?

i forget which one but you said only one of the carriers looked to have a complete model so could that ship be copied and just replace the skin with the shokaku textures files? could that in effect replace the shokaku and work? or is there a lot more to cloning a ship than just swapping texture files?

There are alot of messed up zones.
Several Boxes are outside the ships,
the spheres that should be on the Bridge of the Aircraft carriers,
are infact on the opposite side of the deck,
there are missing damage areas like the props,
and that's just two that I looked at.

So it wasn't just me! :lol:

Thought something went wrong with the coordinates system while importing or something. :doh:

Web; all you're gonna be able to fix with new zones is getting props and masts to act like they should. Actually, the spheres and boxes are all there, be it misplaced like with the bridge sometimes. :lol:

Maybe we can do some editing in S3 editor, ala NSM to tweak sinking, but she's still almost gonna sink with 1 hit (heavy list, decks awash). Somethings wrong, but I can't put my finger on it. :hmm:

I'll dive back in today. Took a break over the weekend (was seeing hex code when I closed my eyes) to get some playtime in, but winded up modding my scopes. It's so hot in here my PC keeps giving beeps for CPU overheat anyway. :damn:

Wow ... :up:
I remember (100 years ago) GWX-team had Ref 's zone editor ... :lol:

Well, we can change the properties of those .zon files in S3 editor, but you'll need a 3d editor to see what you did. It's also impossible to make new entries in S3. Need a hex editor for that, but havn't figured out how just yet. :roll:

A lot changed between 3 and 4, except the bugs. :lol:

Right click > Add array item

:up:

Just proves once more my inexperience and what an awesome program it is. Good job. ;)

But what I really need to know is how to add a new "top-level" (don't know how to call it) entry;
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...e/untitled.jpg
Is this also possible in S3 or should I use hex editor like XVI32? Or can I just add new controller to existing entry and assign arrays to that?

Ubi made new "top-level" entries for each part, like 1 screw or 1 mast at a time. Thought I needed to stick to that layout, would be lot easier if I don't.

:lol:
Very good memory My Friend!

Hell, i got a screenshot of it. I'd post it (again), but id just kick up a hornet's nest, and im too burnt out on that kind of thing. I can only hope S3D gets that ability someday, cause hell will freeze over before any other existing zones editor ever see's the light of day.

Actually,
You would not kick up a hornets nest.
The Zone editor for SH3 takes a massive amount of work to use for SH4.
It was never perfect for SH3!
Ref made it.
Ref released it to people he knew could work with it
in an inperfect state.
It is in fact not even a beta tool!!
Does it work for me?
YES!!
But I can edit files in ways that S3D still dreams about!
Don't Cry Wolf
When there is no Wolf!!

Truthfully, without naming names, i think theres acutaly two different zones editor out there, or at least, two different front end applications capable of editing boxes and sphere's that take some of the guesswork out of editing their size with a GUI representation of the same. Neither of which will ever surface for Joe modder. So unless S3D makes it possible, nobody but some select few will ever see them.

>>When there is no Wolf!!

No wolf? Last i checked there was a whole pack of em! :rotfl:

At any rate....
http://www.softpedia.com/screenshots/Care-Meter_1.png

I've already done my fair share for this game, i really don't care if said applications (or their functionality) ever see the light of day one way or another, infact i don't care about much of anything right now, just saying.