Well, there you have it!

The real reason the U-boats failed starting in 1943 wasn't because of the Allied introduced long-range aircraft, improved sonar, hedgehogs, etc.: it was because the U-boat commanders forgot to create save points before they attacked, and thus were unable to return from death to take advantage of their new-found knowledge of what would work and what wouldn't work! :p

I guess this means this we didn't make GWX tough enough. :o :damn:

We'll obviously have to go back to the drawing boards after we finish V2.1 and rethink what will really make the convoys a lot tougher. :arrgh!:

Pablo

your above list has some little problems for people using OLC's GUI and 100% realism.. no ships on the map

Everyathing else I say: Thanks a lot for that nice instruction :up:

When I play, I do the DID thing. But there is nothing wrong with using your careers to create and save a realistic set of practice scenarios to learn from.

That's another reason why noobs find SH3/GWX2 so hard in the early years. They get very little training time in, since it only happens when they encounter a convoy. Training for the player is very realistic. All military staff train during peace time and war time. So, I would not call this cheating even if some might (no different than reading the tips in the GWX manual).

Also, you can do most of what I suggested even without contacts on the map. It just becomes more tedious, but the principles still work fine.

Okay, I am heading out on patrol on 01/15/43. That should do it right? I am going to meet still opposition which if I am not careful should get me killed when attacking convoys?

Thanks.

The screen shot illustrates the basic intercept approach based on a contact report. We see:

(1) The corridor of probability.

(2) Hourly positions based on 8kts.

(3) The double line shows where I think the convoy will see the sunrise.

(4) The convoy should reach the sunrise position in about 5.5 hours. We will reach the area base on the navigator in 3.5 hours.

(5) The circle gives us some idea where we should able to hear to convoy.

(6) When we reach this area will begin dives every 30 minutes to try pick up the sound of the convoy.

Once we can hear the convoy, we start plotting a detailed track and from their planning our attack. Generally, I have tried to stay beyond visible range (except in bad weather). So, that has meant giving the convoy 15-20km bearth. Now, with the convoy maybe being fitted out with radar this presents a problem.

What is the radar detection range of mast mounted radar? 12nm, 20nm, 30nm? Do we have any tables?

This alone could pose a major problem to my hunting of convoys, since previously sonar always gave me the advantage of long range detection. Perhaps, the advantage has shifted. Well, we'll see.

http://home.comcast.net/~markshot/tempimages/meth01.jpg

Thanks for the earlier suggestions, I will definately try them out. I think Reason 1. is more likely than reason 2 and 3. For 2, I was at Silent Running, 0 knots at 25 meters.
For 3, I didnt even touch th scope. But for 1, I was parked so I was 1000 meters off the furthest outside merchant. When I got pinged, I did go to periscope depth, turned the scope the at the destoryer and he was coming on 700 meters away. I am guessing he caught me somewhere bw 800-1000 meters. My angle to the convoy was not 90 degree perpindicular, more like 130. I will try your idea of staying abeam, and having my 180 degree area face them. It may be a smaller profile to pick up too. I'll check out parking further outside the convoy too.

I agree with you in that the AOD AI was good. I remember those days when the DDs would box you in and it was a nightmare to get out. The chit chat in the bar was good too. SHIII graphics with AOD game engine would be awesome. I did manage to shake my DD but I had to crank a hard 90 to port as he was coming over, 150 meters deep. That threw him off, otherwise he was going to ping me to insanity. No damage taken so far, just burning off more gas than I want.

Good luck with 1943. Sink them all and make it back! If you do, 1/2 a bottle of beer for each of the crew.

Check this out. Not one, but two convoys! :) Ah, yes!

http://home.comcast.net/~markshot/tempimages/meth02.jpg

Here is an example of using just the right level of zoom to establish courses for these convoys:

http://home.comcast.net/~markshot/tempimages/meth03.jpg

Hi!

Actually, things didn't get really tough until May 1943 (aka "Black May").

Pablo

In the later years you'll learn the usefulness in having a homing torpedo in the aft tube ready to go. it's saved my bacon quite a few times.:yep:

I must say 1943 is beautiful change.

Attacking and sinking merchants was no harder than it was in 1942, but now for the first time I am surrounded by four escorts and they are all pinging away. They are sticking with me and dropping DCs.

Wonderful!

Yes, I am having fun now! :)

If it gets to droll,
I can give you a few weapons for the allies that may change your mind.
;)

I think that the experience you've had 'running the drill' with various submarine simulations... over and over... from AOD to SH3, may in actuality be working against you now.

In that respect, I'm almost certain that the machinery of the AI in SH3, even following GWX modifications, will be a disappointment to you.

Some may view this as a 'cop-out' or evasion, but typically we avoid discussing definitive ranges and the maximum 'reach' of various elements that relate to the ASW aspects of GWX. Many of these elements are subject to little if any variable factor. Discussing them in any real detail would remove the 'challenge' you seek altogether and would spoil the uncertainty for many many users. Once you KNOW a thing... you cannot unlearn it.

I can understand if you derive a bit of pleasure from finding the limits and boundaries of various matters by analysis... but bear in mind a question, "Do I really want to know the exact answers?"

Sometimes a simulator player can be his own worst enemy.;)

I will continue on with 1943. I think that perhaps this is where the game should start for me.

Now, perhaps those who have said that convoy hunting is fool hardy in 1943 and beyond speak wisely, but then I will try anyway.

Why?

Well, as we all know the real sub captain did his best to find easy victims to sink and avoid risk. This makes total sense for war, but makes for a boring game. The fun of commerce raiding is getting in and getting out.

So, I think I will actually bypass lone merchants and go after convoys. I do believe as a general matter of principal in convoy attacks, one should strive to attack and disengage without being detected (meaning, of course, they know you are there, but they do not have sensor contact with you). The superior player does that. The inferior player allows himself/herself to be detected and then attempts to break contact. And, of course, the very inferior player fails to break contact and dies.

Now, I am not sure if in SH3/GWX2 post-1943, if one can attack and disengaging without being detected. But I will see if I can develop techniques at this. Various standards are:

(1) Shoot long range - give yourself time to displace and dive before the torpedo puts everyone on alert.

(2) Sprint - briefly before they come looking for you to displace. I don't think this work here, since they are so atuned to engine noise.

(3) Exit out the back - pass under and out the back of the convoy using its noise and confusion to cover your escape.

(4) Wolfpack - wait until others have attacked and are taking heat, then you attack. (no wolfpacks here)

(5) Attack in very poor visibility - surface out of visual and sprint away on the surface. (Won't work with radar or will it? Since everyone with be using active/passive sonar, then maybe no one will have their radars on.)

(6) Deep, deep, deep - go and stay so deep that they cannot pick you up. (Might work here, but you'll need to make 3kts to keep from sinking deeper.)

Then, there is breaking contact:

<to be continue tomorrow>

---

I agree that understanding the mechanics will take some of the challenge away, but what fun is a game such at this if one only plays the sure thing or depends on blind luck. One must make calculated gambols based on skill if one is too have a sense of achievement.

Tonight was the most fun I have had in four weeks of GWX 1.03 and 2.00. I love the tension of the hunt and the escape. I am glad everyone kept saying to me 1943, since I was ready to shelve the game. Instead now I am really up for playing it.

I noticed a huge circle icon on map representing convoy, I wonder why or what it means? Even most convoy reports showing square icon. I have attacked two convoy after they showed up as circle on world map, I noticed they were huge and alot of whale factory, tankers, large merchants, etc. I learned the best method to attack that kind of convoy using G7a going set at slow or medium speed for further range at night time until new electric torpedoe type comes out that should go twice further than G7e.

I noticed one IXB was around 10,000m away from me joining the attack, but too bad it didn't submerge, it got shelled at. I think that IXB was firing deck gun at convoy and its escorts, that IXB got finished pretty quick. I wish it could have submerged and fired torpedoes so that would make it easier for me move in while escorts move away being busy dealing with that or other Uboats. It would be a good decoy.

a further to add, when there's a huge convoy, I kill the leading escort with pleasure, so I can attack the same convoy for 2nd or 3rd times after reloading torpedoes. It pain to sneak into while there's leading escort, so answer is take it out then. I usually do that in IXs, but rare for VIIs.

I notice you have no problem in using the advantage of coloured contact lines http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/621/thinkbigsw1.gif

:rotfl: LMAO :rotfl:

100% :rock:
;)

Yes, it is hard to break the old habits of AOD and SHCE. There are other things which I do that would make some say, "My game is more real than your game." That's fine with me. I play games as I enjoy to play them. For games like these, I mainly like being in charge of the boat and not running individual stations or role playing a single crew position. Nor, do it want to overwhelm myself with tedious details. If I did only one thing in this game and handles sonar at TC1, I could easily maintain a decent map of contacts. Given time, I am sure I could learn to decently estimate speed and range via sound.

I know that "no map contacts" would make the game entirely different, but just too tedious for me. One of the biggest advantages SH3/4 gives over AOD and SCHE is being able to range these lines. You don't have that in those other games. That's not to say that it is imposssible to range the lines. You usually do it by bearing rate (speed of swing), sound of props through the hull, and strength of pings.

One thing that SHCE gives you easier than AOD or SH3/4 is that it shows which contact is doing the pinging. This allows you to prioritize the orientation of your boat.

Each of these games have specific strengths, weakness, focus, and behaviors. That's why I still play them all. I like SH3/GWX, but I don't find it supercede that which came before it. In the same way, I will play SH4/TM and SH4/RFB. They offer some new things, but also lose things too.

I am very happy to have four so different and varied WWII subsims to enjoy these days. Life has never been better. (Now that I have seen 1943, it will be the starting for me from now on.)

Thanks, GWX Team!

I think square contacts have matching log reports. Round contacts only show up on the map. I don't know why that is.