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-   -   VIIB vs. VIIC (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=129110)

Wulfmann 01-17-08 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathfrombelow23
I'm thinking long-term and saving for the XXI.
You could just edit the cfg so the XXI was 1,000 or 5,000 or whatever. That was put in by UBI as a gaming number and has no basis for anything unless you want to think so.
I never changed it from 20K because if I get that far I have 20K anyway and I can't use the renown at Wal-Mart so can but a XXI!!:rotfl:

Wulfmann

High Voltage 01-17-08 11:11 PM
Deeper....Deeper...

Jimbuna 01-18-08 03:27 AM
U-flack...shoot down a few fly boys.....before you get killed http://www.psionguild.org/forums/ima...lies/wacko.gif

Graf Paper 01-18-08 04:26 AM
So it certainly seems the opinion is that the VIIC is a worthwhile investment for its greater diving depth and more extensive upgrades, giving it the edge over the VIIB despite the VIIB being somewhat faster and having a greater submerged range ( 90nm vs. 80nm, thats 18.5km or 11.5 miles difference ).

Now, aside from some modeling work being done by Tomi_099 giving even more compelling reasons for having a VIIC, are the upgrades that really count for sinking enemy ships and evading detection also available for the VIIB? By this, I mean things such as radar, radar detection, anti-sonar coating, snorkel, etc.

The guns like quad-flak and 108mm deck are good to have if you need them but, like I've said before, I try to avoid needing them and rely mainly on stealth for defense.

I suppose I should mention that U-47, my VIIB boat, has the turbo-charged diesels and quick-charge batteries, giving her a top speed of 18kts surfaced and 8kts submerged.

It's currently early June 1940 in game and I'm sailing with the 1st Flotilla out of Kiel. Am I better off saving my points for a Type IX variant later when I get transferred with the flotilla to Brest?


I've always started my careers with 1st Flotilla in September 1939 but my long break from SH3 has left me clueless! :doh:

BulSoldier 01-18-08 07:16 AM
Surcouf - thats what a true submarine is - twin 8inch guns not our funny 88mm ! :rotfl:

she also had aircaft and a boat onboard :D

http://ahoy.tk-jk.net/macslog/French...urcoufthe.html

Jimbuna 01-18-08 10:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graf Paper
So it certainly seems the opinion is that the VIIC is a worthwhile investment for its greater diving depth and more extensive upgrades, giving it the edge over the VIIB despite the VIIB being somewhat faster and having a greater submerged range ( 90nm vs. 80nm, thats 18.5km or 11.5 miles difference ).

Now, aside from some modeling work being done by Tomi_099 giving even more compelling reasons for having a VIIC, are the upgrades that really count for sinking enemy ships and evading detection also available for the VIIB? By this, I mean things such as radar, radar detection, anti-sonar coating, snorkel, etc.

The guns like quad-flak and 108mm deck are good to have if you need them but, like I've said before, I try to avoid needing them and rely mainly on stealth for defense.

I suppose I should mention that U-47, my VIIB boat, has the turbo-charged diesels and quick-charge batteries, giving her a top speed of 18kts surfaced and 8kts submerged.

It's currently early June 1940 in game and I'm sailing with the 1st Flotilla out of Kiel. Am I better off saving my points for a Type IX variant later when I get transferred with the flotilla to Brest?


I've always started my careers with 1st Flotilla in September 1939 but my long break from SH3 has left me clueless! :doh:
Try the 2nd Flotilla in Sept 39 (IXB)

Avatar 01-18-08 04:05 PM
Hey,
I'm on my 2nd career(GWX2.0). My first career was with GWX1.03, but I didnt get to finish, because 2.0 came out. I made it to summer 1944 before I upgraded to 2.0.
On the first career, I waited until the VIIC-41 was available and by then I needed it. After I purchased it, I was offered Radar Absorbing Material and Sonar Absorbing material v.2, immediately. I think that the schnorkel was available to the VIIB. The main thing I needed bythen was the radar absorbing material. Escorts will detect you and chase you off all the time. Once I was without RAM and a DD detected me, but I didnt notice this and raised the TC only to be blasted out of the water.
It is possible to make it to the VIIC41 without purchasing the VIIC, but you have to be alot more careful.

U49 01-18-08 04:50 PM
VIIB as long as possible
 
Submerged range is a critical factor for my tactics and thus I prefer VIIB until the year '42 comes....

Starting from here on the advatages of VIIC's equipment options and it's diving abilities come into play... regretable I think I loose about 10% underwater range....

Tiny 01-18-08 06:15 PM
I have the VIIB because of the deck gun...ofcourse I am only in 1939 so no merchants have guns yet :stare:

Deathfrombelow23 01-19-08 01:24 AM
The VIIC has a deck gun too, if I'm not mistaken? I've always wondered... is the increase in diving depth of the VIIC/41 and VIIC/42 modeled in the game? Can they really dive deeper than the regular VIIC? I just started a new career... GWX 2.0 -- I started in March of 1941 with the 1st Flotilla out of Kiel. Just sank a coastal freighter with my deck gun 25 KM north of Scapa! Not a bad way to start a career. I'm worried about when I get to late 1942 though... would an upgrade to a VIIC/41 or 42 be worth it?

deepboat 01-19-08 06:21 AM
My VII B has served me well for 10 war patrols. I'll probably switch to a VIIC/41 when it becomes available and I'll have lots of renown to build it up.

Wulfmann 01-19-08 09:58 AM
IMO, the type IX boats are like a truck comparing the Type VII to a Porsche.
The niners are slow to dive, don't maneuver well and can not dive as deep as a type VIIC.
The critical later part of the war finds survival as being able to detect the AS ships course, when they drop their loads and being able to turn and move quickly so as not to be where the cans go off and being 50 meters deeper is a big deal as well as the ability to maneuver better.
If you intend on South American/African patrols then the 9 is fine but it does not do well in the big heavily escorted convoys.

But, perhaps that is playing to my methodology and 9Kaleuns have developed their own means to deal with these matters.

I have never run out of batteries in a 7C but that is because too many determined AS never allowed me to live that long.

Wulfmann

Jimbuna 01-19-08 04:10 PM
Can't disagree with much of what you wrote, but coming across a convoy in a Type IX means you have more firepower to do a lot more damage....provided of course you select the right tactics when planning your strategy http://www.psionguild.org/forums/ima...ies/pirate.gif

Wulfmann 01-19-08 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbuna
Can't disagree with much of what you wrote, but coming across a convoy in a Type IX means you have more firepower to do a lot more damage....provided of course you select the right tactics when planning your strategy http://www.psionguild.org/forums/ima...ies/pirate.gif
I am happy to have one less fish and a much better chance to survive. Pre-mid 41 it does not matter much but from mid 41 on it helps and from 5-43 it is a life and death difference.

If you have been running a 7 hop into a 9 and be ready for a surprise.
First you think your PC slowed down when you call to dive as nothing happens
(Now, if you have done SH4 in a pig boat well, that tub diving is like watching paint dry. Very slow drying paint at that!!!)
Then try turning the 9, click hard right rudder and go get a drink while you wait for the turn to start!!!!

Seriously, in a convoy attack the ability to maneuver quickly as a convoy turns, to me, is more important than 6 over 5 fish. After 1940 I fire and dive deep from silent and do not reload so extra reserve is also not a big deal as I operate closer to base for resupply.
They are different experiences and the best one is the one you prefer.
Different war really and I want to do a late war 9 some day. South Atlantic, Indian Ocean definitely not the NA convoys though.

Wulfmann

Julius Caesar 01-19-08 08:12 PM
I just switched to VIIC (from VIIB) and noticed something that wasn't there in VIIB (I think :hmm: ). What is it?

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/5628/32639212nq6.jpg

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/4683/86884219rk9.jpg

Jimbuna 01-20-08 08:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulfmann
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbuna
Can't disagree with much of what you wrote, but coming across a convoy in a Type IX means you have more firepower to do a lot more damage....provided of course you select the right tactics when planning your strategy http://www.psionguild.org/forums/ima...ies/pirate.gif
I am happy to have one less fish and a much better chance to survive. Pre-mid 41 it does not matter much but from mid 41 on it helps and from 5-43 it is a life and death difference.

If you have been running a 7 hop into a 9 and be ready for a surprise.
First you think your PC slowed down when you call to dive as nothing happens
(Now, if you have done SH4 in a pig boat well, that tub diving is like watching paint dry. Very slow drying paint at that!!!)
Then try turning the 9, click hard right rudder and go get a drink while you wait for the turn to start!!!!

Seriously, in a convoy attack the ability to maneuver quickly as a convoy turns, to me, is more important than 6 over 5 fish. After 1940 I fire and dive deep from silent and do not reload so extra reserve is also not a big deal as I operate closer to base for resupply.
They are different experiences and the best one is the one you prefer.
Different war really and I want to do a late war 9 some day. South Atlantic, Indian Ocean definitely not the NA convoys though.

Wulfmann
Gave up the VII over a year back because of the lack of range and firepower. As I said earlier, the limitations as you see them regarding the IX are valid from your perspective.
But, being a IXer you'll understand my limitations issues with regards to the VII :lol:

Each to our own I suppose http://www.psionguild.org/forums/ima...s/thumbsup.gif

Penelope_Grey 01-20-08 08:35 AM
LOL is that a snakeskin U-Boat?

Jimbuna 01-20-08 09:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey
LOL is that a snakeskin U-Boat?
:lol: Don't be so cruel.....We be over on TS if your not too busy with the yorkshires ;)

Wulfmann 01-20-08 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbuna
Gave up the VII over a year back because of the lack of range and firepower. As I said earlier, the limitations as you see them regarding the IX are valid from your perspective.
But, being a IXer you'll understand my limitations issues with regards to the VII :lol:
Each to our own I suppose http://www.psionguild.org/forums/ima...s/thumbsup.gif
Absolutely each to his own, the right way is the way you want it.

Since range and extra reserve are the advantages to a IX and I can see that so except for the NA convoys battles where do you primarily operate? I believe that is the issue, the right tool for the right job and since I notice most of these were lost away from the NA (though some were lost in the NA as well) it seems their strong points would be further away and with less heavily escorted merchants.
Or, have you adjusted to using these in the big convoy battles?:hmm:

Wulfmann

Jimbuna 01-20-08 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulfmann
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbuna
Gave up the VII over a year back because of the lack of range and firepower. As I said earlier, the limitations as you see them regarding the IX are valid from your perspective.
But, being a IXer you'll understand my limitations issues with regards to the VII :lol:
Each to our own I suppose http://www.psionguild.org/forums/ima...s/thumbsup.gif
Absolutely each to his own, the right way is the way you want it.

Since range and extra reserve are the advantages to a IX and I can see that so except for the NA convoys battles where do you primarily operate? I believe that is the issue, the right tool for the right job and since I notice most of these were lost away from the NA (though some were lost in the NA as well) it seems their strong points would be further away and with less heavily escorted merchants.
Or, have you adjusted to using these in the big convoy battles?:hmm:

Wulfmann
TBH I usually go (initially) to wherever SH3 Commander sends me. I usually only hang around for 48 hours and if it's quiet, I then like the range to go 'a hunting' :lol:

Like you've said, I simply try to adjust to the big old girls limitations ;)


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