"Pack your bags; we're goin' ta Memphis." -Frylock, ATHF

As for that post, I'll bring along Bernard.

I think i do. Although im not sure of myself on this subject anymore, it all gets muddled after awhile. I think the bottom line is that Sh4 was meant as a tribute to the US submarine service in the pacific theater. Or at least, that is the common perception. So The term "uboat" is like a slap in the face, because they always get all the hype and attention. So I think for many reasons, alot of people in the SH4 community are just tired of hearing about them.

I don't see anywhere on the DVD case for SH4 that says Silent Hunter 4 is supposed to be a tribute to US submariners. It just says 'Silent Hunter 4 Wolves of the Pacific' which could mean any nationality, as could the term Silent Hunter.

Although if we want to get really picky on stuff, if anything, the Wolf reference is more applicable to German subs than any other nation at all, since they were the ones that hunted in packs and coined the epiphet (not that they exactly darkened the Pacific horizon with U-Boat periscopes), in addition to which, there is a Rising Sun behind where it says 'Wolves of the Pacific' too, which hardly seems to fit a 'US submariner tribute' notion, although we could put that down to naff graphic design I guess, since the box also depicts a sub engaging in a major suface action with carriers and Kamikazes all over the place. As far as I'm aware, UBI pitched it as more appealing to casual players, rather than any sort of tribute.

I like both sims, I really don't see why it has to turn into a petty war about things, there's nothing stopping anyone driving a Gato alone if they want to, although to be fair, I think UBI ought to add in that wierd Yank one - the Narhwal is it? before they put an obscure Jerry one that never even got built, in numbers.

Anyway, I'd like to see Jap, British and Italian ones too, but I'm not about to start slagging forum members and developers off, just because I'm not getting exactly what I in particular want.

Edit: Hey look at my post count! I am 1337, cool, (or pehaps I mean kewl) I am teh roxxor (whatever that means)

:D Chock

Agreed Sir :yep:

Not that anyone RTFM's this day and age, but try looking at the last sentence of page 20 in the game manual.
Here, ill save you the trouble:

Very interesting.

the game is about the pacific , but everybody is free to install or use some features or future mods, like u-boats. Also , it happens before when a team convert SH2 to the pacific using stuff from DC (destroyer command) :yep:

the addon opens a door to import units and things from sh3 to sh4 and a very wide array of possibilities.

That is what crossed my mind....i wonder how the subs will look when crossed back from sh4 to sh3......

If it says that in your manual, fair enough, but it doesn't say that anywhere in my SH4 manual that I can see, this is page 20 of it:

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...r4Manual20.jpg

:D Chock

Yeah, i can do that too.

http://www.ducimus.net/sh4/whatevernazilover.jpg

who's gonna bring the curry?:D . i think it's good for the series to bring a Uboat campaign to that region:ping: . it's something that's little explored, even possobly historically

Nor do I! Now I have two threads to watch :damn: Perhaps it is just the passion of the sea and the souls that like sailing it! Now get to grid whatever and sink a vessel;)

So, we have confirmed that the US and European manuals are different, I don't understand why you want to be antagonistic about it, I'm just pointing out that it doesn't say something in my manual. Secure from General Quarters.

:D Chock

Me neither. I remember when back in my days of tank miniature simulations, there were certain players who weren't interested in playing anything but the Eastern Front. (British and American tanks weren't as cool as Tigers and T-34s tangling) and vice versa. I guess every community develops it's schisms.

I have to admit, on this debate, i have to take a good long look at the inside of myself to understand why i get antagonistic, i know i do it, and its not intentional. Normally with debates, i don't have an emotional attachment, but with SH4, i do. And i admit this.

I think its because, quite simply of nationlistic feeling, or some odd sense of patriotism. I mean, ive played uboats, for 3 years. I learned all about their history, but how now, heres a game that was about my country's history! I love my country with all heart and served my stint in the military like many before me, and here is a game about my own countries history. So i think when people put the game down, or slight the US sub service, i just get angry. It feels like an indirect insult. I know thats now how people intend it, but it feels that way none the less.

Ive often thought about this portion of history. Here was a theater when were were not the aggressors, here was a war where the cause was just, and what we had to do was clear. The other day i read this passage, and in my mind, it encapsuled what the PTO, and ultimatly SH4 is all about:


"The jack entered Pearl Harbor on May 21 1943- some sixteen months after the strike on Pearl Harbor. It was a solemn moment for all of us as we went past Ford Island and saw the place where our battle fleet had been destroyed. Work was still under way on some of the sunken battleships, and the mainmast of the Arizona was still serving as a coffin for the more then one thousand officers and sailors trapped in her, could be seen in the distance.

Looking at the actual scenes of this disaster, i felt as though something very sacred to my country has been raped and pillaged - not in the fair give-and-take of war, but without warning on a calm and peaceful sunday morning, while men slept in their bunks.

I do not consider myself a vengeful person, but that morning i felt a deep burning desire to show these people they could not do that to the United States without paying a dreadful price. To my young mind, the day those red-ball-marked planes winged in from the north was one that indeed would live in infamy and change the world forever"


And you know, it isn't so much that people want to add uboats to Sh4, its the enthusiam to do so. Its like people are so eager to cast aside what was truly a just cause and, drape it with the flag of the third reich. Thats what hurts the most.

I'm not trying to add "gas to the fire" here, but I also get the feeling from posts in the other thread that there were still aspects of the SH4 Pacific War that were lacking from SH4: Jap sub types, missing but "crucial" IJN and Merchant marine vessels, to name a couple of items. The PTO community felt a bit slighted that these issues were not being addressed in the add-on, but that the predominantly SH3 ATO community was being served...

Remember the SH3 release was woefully short of ships too
C and T type units for every nation
The same armed trawler for everyone too and US fleet tug - which has made another appearance as 3 different units in SH4 with variations

I have no doubt in time ppl will add more units in SH4 other than some of the kitbashed and ported ships that are available now
All takes time to get right

Who knows what units Ubi will release in the addon - if any apart from the Scheer\Spee shown so far

RE the missing Jap sub types - agreed - with Ubi this time managing to sort out air drop torps it would ( hopefully ) have been easier to add AI subs with the capability of fire

Again no doubt will be sorted if not by Ubi then by others

If Ubi would release some of their tools for getting new assets into SH4, I would be in 7th heaven... and I think it would go a long way with both ATO/PTO communities. I know there are tools in development, but the idea of an "official, we used this tool" would be SO cool...;)

True to a certain extent
Still needs someone to actually make a 3d model first
I believe thats harder than the importing part

Depends on the modeler really. I'm sitting on a couple vessels for the PTO from this thread: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=111177
it would be so much simpler to add them if Ubi would release the tool(s)... :up:

You know, when modifications and addons cause this level of emotional turmoil perhaps its best to walk away from the keyboard and get some fresh air.

I mean seriously, its a game not a shrine.

Relax and have a Corona or something :cool: