Great thread, thanks to all!

The one bit not discussed here which seems to conflict with what I (thought) I understood is the position keeper. I get top dial= target, bottom= me. But after that-

1- What do the arrows indicate? I thought they indicated where the 'other' was (ie, on top 'target' dial, it showed the position from which I was viewing target, and on bottom dial, it showed the angle from my boat that the target was located (ie, should = reading on my periscope if I'm viewing target). Using the graphic where Silents' pericscope is dead ahead (although not necess. aimed at target) as an analysis, top dial indicates our sub is located approx 20 degrees starboard of astern from target's perspective; the bottom dial says the target is located 70 degrees off sub's starboard bow.

But looking at the next graphic, where the PK images are pasted-in as little squares (nice graphic editing, btw!), the arrows clearly indicate something else. Target is oriented east/"right", and sub oriented directly north/"up". Both arrows are off at wierd angles.

2- What are the outer two rings? The outermost is appears to be absolute bearing (target points to "9", suggesting 90 degrees, or east/"right", which is correct, and sub points to "0", or north/straight upn which is also correct. The inner ring, I guess is relative bearing to help with determining what white arrow's direction with some accuracy. (which brings us back to Q1).

But if outer ring is true bearing, why isn't 0-degrees straight up-down, instead of angled off at a north-west orientation? There are probably a few more questions here, but this is enought for a first-time poster.

Hehehe
 

Nice to see someone else finding that they can send bearing without using the stadimeter. I would add that the more techniques you add to your manual targeting bag of tricks, the more successful you will be.

You can dispense with even more of the TDC funcions by using the Dick O'Kane technique, setting up an attack course of 90º from the target's course. Then all you need is the speed of the target and your torpedo speed to determine your lead angle on the target.

You don't want to deal with the math or a chart? No problem! Just enter the target speed into the TDC and sight right on the target. With the PK turned off, angle on the bow set to 90º (make sure the target's bow on the TDC is pointed in the correct direction!!!!), when the target hits the crosshairs, press the range/bearing send to TDC button and shoot as often as you think necessary as the juicy parts of the ship pass the crosshairs.

Now even range doesn't matter! You should shoot sometime between bearing 10º and 350º, another 5º either way isn't fatal (well, it IS fatal to the target, but who's going to object to that? :smug:). Being 800 yards or closer to the target is recommended, although anything under 1200 is pretty much guaranteed hits.

There are several techniques to be used. Make sure you learn conventional targeting using that stadimeter for the times when you can't properly set up your attack and need to get a decently aimed shot off anyway. WernerSobe attack school will take care of that. With a well-rounded bag of tricks you can take stock of your situation, choose the best-fitting technique and bag your target.

Keep practicing on Werner's sonar technique. It's deadly once you get proficient. Great in the middle of the night when you find yourself in the middle of a convoy and can't even see the ships for identification! Remember that they can see you in those conditions because the Japanese used infared field glasses. They have 'em in the game too, so don't get overconfident in blackout conditions.

Good luck! Subsim is the best place to learn how to master this game.

Nice info here folks :up: I need to get into manual targetting.

@ rickster, Welcome to SUBSIM :up:


RDP

1 - The arrow leaving your sub shows the path the torpedo will take after leaving your tube. The arrow pointing into the target ship shows the direction they will see the torpedo arrive from. Note that in silentscorp1971's edited picture the arrows don't match the solution he has illustrated. The arrow should point just a little bit to the right of the bow of your sub, since the target would get led a little bit.

2 - For the bottom (sub) dial, the plastic triangle fixed at the top shows relative bearing to target on the inner ring and true bearing to target on the outer ring. The tip of your sub shape points to your sub's heading on the outer ring.

For the top (target) dial, the plastic triangle fixed at the bottom shows your sub's relative bearing as viewed from the target on the inner ring, and the true bearing on the outer ring. The tip of the target shape points to the target's heading on the outer ring.

To illustrate, look at the PK from silentscorp's earlier picture:

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/c.../AoB-tweak.jpg


Your sub is heading due North. The target is at about a 52 degree bearing, in front of you to the right. Since you are heading North the relative and true bearings are the same (the target is Northeast of you)

The target is heading 90 degrees. If you were on the bridge of the target, you would see your sub at a relative bearing of about 144 degrees (behind and to the right). Since you are heading East, that translates to a true bearing of about 254 degrees (i.e. you are Southwest of the target).

The arrow leaving your sub indicates your torpedo will take a 70 degree turn to the right after leaving the tube. This sharp turn is necessary since the target already to your right and heading away. Note that an ideal firing solution usually has the torpedo not turning much to either side after firing (i.e. the arrow leaving your sub points to about 0 on the inner dial).

P-thighs:
Thanks for your clarification, I REALLY appreciate it! Given the extent and quality of Silent's discussion/graphics, it hadn't occured to me that the pasted bits might not actually be from the same attack/firing solution.

My original idea wasn't too far off really, b'c the arrows' real meaning is of same general direction as my misunderstanding, (ie, the torpedo should run at an angle close to the angle at which I view the target) even if the difference is real and important

And a clarification: it the plastic nub at top of lower "sub" dial indicates relative bearing of target, then won't the white "torp" arrow be generally pointed in that direction? If I see a firing solution where the arrow's pointed toward the lower half of the dial, something would definately be screwy, correct?

@rickster

Yes, in general the arrow should be roughly towards the bearingo f the target, adjusted for the lead on the target depending on it's direction.

Note that the display will change significantly depending on whether you have a bow or aft tube selected. If you are seeing weird things make sure you have the proper tube selected. A target behind your sub with an aft tube selected will resulted in the direction arrows pointed towards the back of your sub.

But yes, in general, since the top of the lower dial indicates the bearing from your sub to the target, usually the torpedo arrow should be roughly in that direction.

I cut those out of another screenshot I had of a different solution. :rotfl:
Sorry if they confused anyone, I was illustrating guessing AoB based on your approach and not actual torpedo bearings. :know:

RR, When you say "sight right on the target" do you mean the point in space he will be at when he reaches 90 degrees.. ie your 0 bearing?

Edit: I also fixed the arrows on the original presentation to better represent the correct angles.

RR, that is one sweet new option for my playbook!

I got through playing around with it and made a few screenshots to help make it easier for others to see what you are talking about.

Using the RR method your pre-attack could use the same setup and speed calculation techniques as I described earlier. You would plot your solution for the Intercept point and send the speed and AoB (of a 90 degree intercept). You would lastly send the distance/bearing to tdc with the periscope pointed at the Intercept point. I also set my distance manually to the max but not sure if its necessary.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/c...gleAttack1.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/c...gleAttack2.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/c...gleAttack3.jpg


I tested it on the torpedo practice cruiser and fired #1 slow, #2 med, #3 slow, and #4 med and all 4 hit as expected.
I also fired a spread from 350 thru 10 degrees and all hit.
Those pesky destroyers had better watch out now. :rock:

Great job with those screenies! I also have a tutorial in WernerSobe's Advanced TDC + PK training video thread. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...6&postcount=67 (Don't look now, but in my tutorial I actually shot a bit before I should have, but still had no misses.) It's stickied at the top of the messages. Folks, this works great, but it's even more fun to stick three torpedoes into a target you've never seen with Werner's sonar only targeting technique!

The more techniques you collect, the more ships you'll put on the bottom of the ocean.

Absolutely! You're first picking where the torpedoes go, then pointing the periscope there so you can pull the trigger as the juicy parts of the ship pass by. I said "sight right on the target" because the torpedo will hit the ship at the spot the crosshairs are on when you shoot the torpedo. Another similar technique has you setting the speed for zero and sighting the periscope a certain number of degrees behind the torpedo track, depending on target speed. I've eliminated that because it opened too many doors for operator error. (that means I read the chart wrong and aimed for a slow torpedo when I was using a fast one. Missed it clean!)

After my son was born I didn't have much time for SH4, getting back into it now. I hunted all afternoon for this thread to relearn my manual TDC use.
Finally found it, game on! :rock:

Well then...you came to the right place for answers!...AND ONCE IN A WHILE -THEY ARE EVEN CORRECT ONES....



...just kidding...I see yours have already been attended to nicely.


Good luck!

I will only like to add another tip in regard to AoB calculation.
You can use thre transporter angle in the navigation map to calculate it, with an accurate and no aproximately angle.
Just left clic in the heading line of the ship ahead of the intercept point, carry the line to the intercept point left click and from there carry the second line from that point to your sub (over the line you used to calculate the intercept point), and Voila! in the angle you can see the measure of the angle, carry it to the TDC. :yep:

Another necropost... I feel so old :p

But after looking at this thread again it is a gold mine of information well presented and explained.

May even be bump worthy :know:

And, rather than jump right in as if it were yesterday, Silentscorp71 did say that he had resurrected it and why. That's a good thing.:sunny:

welcome aboard me hearty