type 13:
Max range 10000
Max height 25000

Should be a group of aircraft at 100km, a single plane at 50km. The game values might all be shortened from reality however.

type 21:
Max range 14000
Max height 25000
RL could detect a large ship at 20km, single plane at 70km.

type 22:
Max range 18000
Max height 25000
Large ship at 34km, single plane at 17km

The difference in cross section between a large ship (presumably a cruiser or bigger? Maybe 5000+ tons?) and a sub, even surfaced is pretty huge.

The 13 and 21 are 200 and 150cm sets. The 22 is 10cm. I think I'd change the 13 and 21 to not ever detect a periscope, and they should probably have trouble getting a sail from bow or stern.

Mine was a reply to ducimus saying it was the minimum altitude the detector could see. So a large number so that even a surfaced sub would be invisible.

I strongly recommend reviewing this thread before you get too deeply submerged in the radar issue:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=111562

I did read that. The SD working as surface search makes player subs too powerful, while the jap escorts all having surface search radar makes THEM too capable. The tweak files for AI raqdar are not as complicated in terms of values, i think.

Much thanks again. :up:
Building tweakfile now ... argh, there are 61 sensors in this one.

The tweak file was done already by nvdrifter, I'm using minitweeker to read it.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=109854

-AI Sensors.dat Tweak file:
Allows modding of AI sensors using TT SH3 Mini Tweaker program

MinSurface is the minimum surface the sensor can pick (in square meters) at maximum range.

Ref

A quick question, I'm using the minitweaker for the first time. When you make changes to a number, at what point does it actually change the file? Does it overwrite it in the SH4 folder (thats where i pointed the program to). My changes to the type13 radar in the ai_sensors file don't seem to have any effect.

Ii'll double check when i get home from work. As i recall theres acutally two surface values where AI radar is concerned. One deals with an objects surface, the other deals with height from the surface of the water. I could be mistyping the name though, (im going by memory here, i dont have the files in front of me)

M'kay, reread some of this thread.

When someone said, "air search" radar, the first thing that popped in my mind was radar similar to Mark series thats assigned to aircraft. That was my misunderstanding. That radar is a bit different then the acutal problem. Air search radar in similar context to the SD radar problem?

Honestly, i would either: assign the destroyer another radar via the SNS file, reconfigure that radars geometry to act as an early version of surface searching radar, or remove it from 43 altogether. Seriously how often do you think JP destroyers need to be aware of US aircraft? Theres really not much of a need, so it's not really crucial that it detects only air units.

Ah, so there is no limit on the altitude for AI radar then. Yeah, ducimus, that was my suggestion earlier. the AI vs AI combat is pretty crappy as it is, the best solution would be to just NULL the Type 13 radar out.

tater

BTW, regarding the visual "sensor" does that work within the parameters deterministically, or is there a random element? Ie: You COULD be detected at such and such a range, but you might not, vs get inside X range going Y speed in Z seas, and you are detected 100% of the time.

I ask because while AI with radar when they shouldn't might be a problem, so is pulling up next to a DD and having them ignore you 100% of the time.

OTOH, I am with you on the "the heck with reality in the specifics, it's the outcome that matters" side of things. So while one such solution is to eliminate the air search radar, another similar technique might be to change the minimum surface area detected at max range to a LARGE number, like a huge warship cross section. I say this because the later radar models are identical in the tweak file except each has the max range increase by 4000m. So if the 13 detects you decks awash in the fog now at 7km, so will the 22, even if in RL it would see a DD at 7000m, but not a sub until 2000m (surfaced).

So tweaking that for a realistic outcome using the cross sectional area might make sense---all attention to its functionality for anythign other than detectign subs would be ignored, just try to get THAT part in the ballpark. If that makes any sense.

Visual detection:
varies on:
- enviormental variables (light, sea wave height, fog)
- How much surface area of your sub is being presented
- how fast your going.


Radar:
Id stick to a simplistic solution because its really not that improtant. At the most, id take the nonclamture an a 1944 surface radar, make the type 13 match it, and then shorten the range.

Minitweaker creates a backup copy of the file you are editing "Copy of ...." , you must remove it from the directory for the changes to take effect.

Ref

Thanks for the help, ref.

Changing the max range value of type 13 radar to 1 (in the AI_Sensors file) solves the problem.

I have a solution for this that allows the radar to remain enabled and operational as intended, but I need to test a bit further first. I also have to create a special visual sensor to do the testing. If I get it working tonight, and can verify the results, I'll post the modified AI_Sensors.dat.