Bullets of Columbine say noting to you?

Ask Skybird.

Waste-gate what do you mean by worthy? "Legitimate"? In a position of self-defense, I don't recognize the authority of anybody but me to judge the legitimacy of my actions.

Considering the other forms to be worthy, then it's worthy aswell. A dedicated gunslinger can defeat a pack of dedicated swordsmen or dedicated hand-to-hand fighters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol0mfCin8rU

Learn to shoot from the hip and you can engage in CQB. The cowboy wins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY7tsBvkHt8. And the fat cowboy is slowly getting there: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8NIsy4fqng

This <LINK> says nothing to you?

The legal definition is my definition of murder Waste Gate, that is my definition of murder, the unlawful killing of one human by another, and my reply was to ASWnut101.

He was saying in self defence he has the right to kill someone, to actually point a gun at them and kill them deliberately, which is outrageous. Nobody has the right to kill someone, you may have a right to carry a gun but not to kill.

Pal, I live within two miles of Columbine HS and go by it at least three times per week. The people involved in the killings were criminals and if there is a better case for allowing responsible people to have and use firearms I cannot think of one.

The deputy placed in the school before hand was the first to run away.

I ignore you ...if you understand what it means

So you understand what I'm saying?

You can if you're Chuck Norris :p


Anyway, this is a debate which has been raging for years. Its my opinion that a firearm is a legitamate defense, yet one which should be used as a real last resort. Why make that burglar's death quick? :arrgh!:

But seriously, in response to Penelope's post, firearms shouldnt be used for outright homicide. At most, a limb shot would be enough, I'd imagine.

What's easier to hit? A arm/leg or the torso?

Ok. What is the unlawfull taking of life? Is self defense unlawfull? Is taking of another life unlawfull when it is self defense?

Center of mass.

Death is not assured. Stopping the situation is.

Self defence is not unlawful, but there is something called reasonable force. And yes killing someone in self-defence is unlawful and the killer deserves to be punished.

Taking another life in the sense we are discussing in this thread is never justified. Not only that how would you sleep at night knowing what you done? I couldn't, if I knew I'd killed someone it would drive me crazy.

Self defence.....
The most importanti it's the prevention of the crime.
And sometimes you have to resolve the problem that
generates the crimes
Somethimes you have to use repression
Somethimes you have to educate peoples
Somethimes you have to create social partecipation
And so on.
This is defence

Otherwise is far west
Palestinian far west
Lubnan civil war
Iraq far west
Thake a gun in your hand...then you know what i mean

How I or anyone else comes to peace with taking someones life is not really the issue. Reasonable force is only an issue for law enforcement., those folks have been trained in such issues. I'm talking about it's my life or yours, self defense. When I am dead the comfort that my killer will be brought to justice isn't much of a cosnolation.

I was under the impression that in America you have the right to shoot someone who enters your property ilegaly, in UK and Australia you dont.
Is the part about america correct ?, If it is the law generates a different thinking about these things.

Recently in Australia a guy stabbed a burgler, and he got into trouble for doing it.

Yes, that's the law.

That's pretty sick, I think.

Not all states have the same laws regarding illeagal entry into ones home. Although in many states the owner of the home has every right to defend his/her life and property his/her use of a firearm it is not an affirmative defense in some states, because the state has left him/her defenseless by not allowing him him/her to own a firearm. The criminal entering the home of course is in a far better position because he/she doesn't obey the law to begin with.

It is unfortunate that people become the criminal by protecting their lives and home in some states.

Correct....
But if you live in Palestine the situation
it's not common...very rare or none.
Social structure it's too strong

Ignoring the legal dillemma of firearms vs martial arts and bringing the topic back onto track:

Firearms and martial arts are both viable means of self-defense.

I consider martial arts to be less lethal in principle, as most forms of martial arts are meant to defend oneself against unarmed, armed, and multiple attackers. However, not everyone has the strength, the motivation, or the discipline to maintain proficiency in martial arts. As a quick example: How many of you do rigorous exercises everyday? By rigorous I mean a full plate of exercises like pushups, situps, lifing weights, running etc?

Firearms even the playing field since not everybody is built like Rambo. Firearms are essentially a tool to be used, the true purpose of said tool depends entirely on the user. A 60 year old man has a better chance of fending off multiple agressors with a firearm than he does of using his mad judo skills. And a small statured woman has a better chance of defending her life against a stronger opponent intent on robbing/mugging/raping/ unknown intentions etc. against her than by using brute force against brute force against ehr opponent.

Whether the intruder is the common village thief whom you had the unpleasant surprise of running into, or the neighborhood parolee on an alcohol-driven violent crime spree; both methods are viable means of self-defense. So long as the criminal obeys orders, they'll get out of the situation alive.

If I were to say that martial arts were for everyone*1, it'd be equivalent to me saying that everyone is capable of handling a .600 Nitro Express*2. Which is absolutely untrue, some people have weak wrists that can't handle the recoil, or they're afraid of the unfamiliarity surrounding firearms or martial arts.

So, to each his own so long as they're responsible enough to handle what skills or objects they possess and more importantly: That whatever methods they choose will WORK for them and keep themselves alive.

*1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xVH-dIP4yg

*2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lzri8dn7p0

In other words: "God made man but Sam Colt made men equal"