really?...

if i may so, you seem to have some peculiar attitudes considering...

indeed. who's been talked down to here?

(and as i've suggested to you before, pm might be a better way of adressing whatever issues you might have than cluttering up the public threads with this silliness)

In before lock.

I think many people expected more for a sequel, than some flashy graphical effects. They at least expected bugs from SH3 not to show up and I think when making a SIM, it should be a priority to get number and stats right. If we can do it, they can too.

Turning down of realism could then be done via settings or mods.

I believe that is why the attitude here is different.

@ tater

Not got SH4 yet
Damn couriers

Anyway the platform cfg is basically the ships.cfg
In the same folder as the Eqp file

You can change any loadout you like PROVIDING the actual weapon is ingame

Use Pack3d - version 3 will be ok

http://files.filefront.com/P3dAllVer.../fileinfo.html


The Bombs.dat should be in the Library folder
Open with Pack3d and you can see the available bombs you can use


http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/1544/bombsne3.jpg


SH3 bombs.dat shows 100/250 and 500KG bombs

VERY helpful, thank you.

If the min is 100kg, I guess I'd make a rare A6M loadout with those.

The val would get 1x250, the B6N could get 1x500, 4x100, maybe 3x250 (racks will be wrong, but so be it).

Betty also holds only 800kg of bombs, H6K 1000kg, and H8K has 2xtorpedo, 8x250, or 16x60kg bombs as well as DCs.

Will DL that can-opener and have a look. I will take a peek at the airbases (already have) and look at the amounts of planes as well, they also seem screwy.

tater

As I said that dat is from SH3 so it may be different in 4
Hopefully by the weekend will have the game

Dont forget to back up any files you alter first
Just in case

Have fun :up:

OK, my first tests. I decided to start simple, and instead of trying any alternate loadouts on the Zero's cfg, I altered the loadout descriptions on the zero's .eqp file since I could do it while changing fewer names. I changed 3x500 to 2x100 (bonus for the usually unbombed zero, lol) and I changed 5x250 all to null. Cruised around on surface looking for planes, and got mostly zeros without bombs, a couple with 2 bombs.

So far I didn't get strafed. Need to check and see if the strafing behavior is tied to having bombs... anyone know? Will "pure" fighters strafe a sub in game, or is there another tweak.

I have to admit it was interesting, the radar sees planes, and you might dive to find they were just fighters, OTOH, as soon as I saw the first one, more kept coming even though the 1st was unarmed bomb wise. My next test will involve altering the H8K I think. With real loads that would be scary perhaps, big bombs, medium bombs, and DCs...

I think this has promise---remember also that 3x500kg bombs is easily enough to shatter a large fleet DD. The IJN lost a CV with ONE 500kg (1000lb, actually, so less than 500kg) bomb at Midway. I'm hoping to do more tonight, I just bcked up the entire Air folder, so i might go ahead and change all of them to the closest RL fit with the weak bomb selection (100, 250, 500, DC).

tater

Huh? Forming your opinion of people based on their tone or style and ignoring those that don't meet your standards is egoism at its worst. He's saying to not worry so much about perceived criticism and simply take what is useful from it and don't let the tone and style bother you. It is only a *****ly ego that prevents someone from seeing past tone and understanding actual content.

Anyways, if Tater is who I think he is, and if he tells you that your claim to realism is contradicted by a source he has at hand, then you should probably listen to the facts contained within and ignore how they are delivered. Tater knows his stuff.

And Tater, thanks for the effort on this important issue. The Japanese may not have been experts on ASW, but they had air cover over a huge portion of the theatre, which should be a constant concern and problem to deal with in the game. Personally, I don't want to face challenges that are implemented with a degree of absurdity, such as they currently stand.

Thanks AKD. I think there are more than a few Il-2 guys around here :D

The aircraft are limited, and the loadouts are also very limited. I think for air stuff (assuming no new bombs, etc), the trick is a balance that makes air appropriately dangerous, with out being either overly lethal, or just annoying.

BTW, all this talk about tone... I know many people who I talked to for ages on the net before I ever met them in person. In general, written communication—particularly the quickly authored internet forum post—isn't the best way to decide if you'd like someone in person. I imagine the vast majority of folks that are interested enough in a given subject/game/etc would have a great time talking and throwing back a few beers with each other.

<S>

tater

Another Il-2 guy here from SimHQ. Hey tater and akdavis. :D

I would go with 1x250kg for the Zero. Not saying that Il-2 is the best reference to go by, (those in the know realize many planes there have loadout "issues") ;) but it shows no loadouts for 2x100kg for any Zeke variant. Unless, perhaps, there's evidence 2x100 was used?

-B5N Kate: loadouts should be 3 x 100 kg bombs, 1 x 250 kg bomb, 1 x 500 kg bomb, and of course 1 x torpedo.

-Q1W1: http://www.combinedfleet.com/ijna/q1w.htm says it could carry 2 x 250 kg bombs or depth charges. Do we even have depth charges in SH4?

-The "US Fighter" (a Buffalo) shouldn't even have bomb loadouts, right?

-F1M Pete: way overdone in SH4. Apparently all it could carry was 2 x 60 kg bombs.

-G4M Betty: way off again. Too many correct loadouts to list, other than to say it should carry a torpedo.

-H6K: not sure on this one

-H8K: way, way off. Corrected loadouts should include depth charges and torpedoes.

No, 2x100 instead of 2x60kg. The 250kg bomb was for kamikaze zeros, it was not used operationally as a fighter bomber with 250s.

Yeah, there are air-dropped DCs, but they are listed under their description as 450kg bombs. IN RL the air-dropped DCs were 250kg.

You are right on the F2A, no bomb shackles. If it did it would likely have been like the F4F, 2x100lb.

Yeah, the Pete is fubar, too. By a lot.

Yeah, betty has 5 bomb points in game, 4 wing, m1 center, like a fighter. It can only hold one torp, or 800kg bombs. 3x250, 1x500, 5x100, etc.

H6K holds 1000kg in RL.

H8K holds 2000kg or so. Best IJN bomber of the war, lol. Yeah, on the DCs and 2xtorpedo.


tater

Ah, OK. I didn't realize that.

Was the SB2C ever used as a torpedo bomber? I've seen sources state it carried a torpedo, but did it ever really do any torpedo bombing? Here's to hoping an Avenger is in the works for the next patch.

Yes, there is at least one mission I know of where the SB2Cs carried torpedo operationally. In fact, I want to say that during that same mission some TBMs were carrying bombs . . . I could be confusing things, though.

I am pretty sure the A6M2s at Philippine Sea carried 250kg bombs; irregardless, those were special dive bombing units using A6Ms because of insufficient modern dive bombers being available and were used in a select set of special circumstances; they should not carry such weapons in game. In fact, I would argue that the A6Ms in game maybe should have no loadout besides their guns. I am not aware that they were specifically used as ASW aircraft (a role normally reserved for Rufes, Vals, Petes, and Daves, and later on Kates); Zeros encountered in game would be those on CAP or reconnaisance patrols, which would have a standard loadout of an external fuel tank only.

For some of the other planes mentioned here (such as the Betty and H8K) one should be careful to remember the differences between patrol/ASW loadouts and anti-shipping loadouts. Aside from the Americans (using various specialized ASW torpedos), I believe most nations used bombs and depthcharges, rather than torpedos, on aircraft engaged in surface or ASW patrol. If nothing else, torpedos tended to be heavy (range limiting), only useful against surfaced/shallow running subs, and somewhat expensive overkill on a thin-skinned submarine.

Another SimHQ Pacific Fighters dude. Interesting who alot of us show up in this thread . . .

Sorry if I was confusing, the real Zero held 2x60kg. One under each wing. The 2x100 I suggested was to be able to give SOME load to the zekes since 100 is the min in game. The question really is one of gameplay at a certain point. I'd tend to prefer bombless zeros, and adjust the air difficulty by making more maritime patrol bombers instead of by adding bombs to fighters.

If pure fighters will strafe a sub, so much the better. I'm with you on no bombs being ideal.

As for the Betty, the only reason to give it a torpedo load in game would be if they will actually attack shipping. You could have a mission where you find yourself in the sealark channel when a bunch of them sweep in to torpedo the AKs off guadalcanal. Be fun to watch them get slaughtered---except in SH4 they'd burn, drop anyway, and fly around burning, lol.

Aha, a lot of Il-2 guys here...:cool:

Another thing that's off with just about every aircraft are their dimensions and top speeds. Using Hardball's Aircraft Viewer, I've tweaked (so far) the dimensions and top speeds (at sea level) of the Zero and Betty, with no ill effects. I don't know how much (if any) effect the dimensions make on the aircraft models, but at least the changes are there.

i wonder if the dimension values affect the hit probability of the ai aa??
:hmm:

That's what I was thinking.

Regarding the F2A and SBC2, I wouldn't change their loadouts as they are essentially acting as placeholders for the correct aircraft. Certainly, I saw both B-24s and PBYs in pre-release game footage, but these are mysteriously replaced by the Lancaster in the release. I think us Il-2 folks have a pretty good idea why there are only British and defunct US manufacturer aircraft in the game as of now.

Perhaps something wasn't worked out in time for release, or maybe they are just waiting to drop them into the next patch. Regardless, I wouldn't worry too much about their accuracy at this point.

I added the Sh3 Avenger to Sh4 with no probs.

Attacks and gets shot down perfectly.

Well, I wasn't even thinking of the US planes as a priority, but even a a placeholder the Brewster is a little over bombed for early war, anyway. Odd that the US planes have halfway decent loads (for average US planes later in the war at least), but all the IJ aircraft are totally wrong.

It might be an error, or it might be an attempt at playbalance. Perhaps the devs are trying to encourage submerged behavior during daytime? Dunno.