I saw the program. It wasn't as bad as some on this board are making out. It was a pleasant enough time waster.... :up:

Some people are naturally ignorant leave it at that both sides commited atrocities. Did anyone watch a doco here about WW2 "black" propaganda. They used to air messages from England to German U-Boats where a young woman would talk about sexual stories. Then they also used to air about which houses were bombed etc and the Brits managed to find out personal things about some of the submariners so they would voice fake messages across the radio about family deaths. Along with this also came the posters which were trying to make the soldiers go back home the poster had a man making love to a young german woman while her husband was dying in a war and said that immigrants in Germany were having competitions at who can get the most soldiers wives. The thing with this black propaganda is that they pretended to be patriotic and all that but in a stupid way. They also sent ghost mail to the family of dead soldiers saying that they are still alive and in a neutral country and will return at the end of the war. Totally horrible, my Grandfather was in London during the battle of Britain and across came a story that the germans attempted to invade (forgot from which coastland) but the beach was covered in oil purposely. As soon as all the germans got onto the beach it was lit up along with all the other soldiers.

Then again my grandfather could have recited more and openly talked about the bombings and some of his stories including how the brits used to stick all the prisoners in the bottom of their cargo/merchant ships and talked about when one passenger liner was sunk by a German boat carrying Italian POW's.

War is always horrible no matter what side you are on people always come up with horrible generalizations. Im a Serb my next door neighbours are both Bosnian coincidently. We get along perfectly fine and would risk our own lives to save each other and were fairly close.

I just wish I talked to my grandfather about WW2 more I feel that all the information he had in him was lost. He lived a good life he watched the moon landings was in the battle of britain and lived. Performed the first ever liver transplant (when it happened in Italy (He was one of the main doctors)) Saw the moonlandings along with my father, became a main surgeon at the Hospital of Belgrade. Was a doctor in Berlin during the time of the collapse of the Berlin wall. Got one of the first smaller sized computers created in the world after working as a doctor for some company (way way back). Ended being a specialist regarding the liver and happily retired. He then got multiplied myloma (it was on more then one place on his body) and died of a multiple organ failure Febuary 15th 2007.

I think people who have experienced WW2 are wearing thin and im determined to learn as much about the subject as possible. Sorry I diverted a bit off course but I thought it was important just for his sake to provide a bibliography. The black propaganda was a documentary on SBS (Australia). But ill end with a final statement war is hell its never nice and you always end up looking like a bad guy from someones point of view.

I hope that wording is theirs and not yours. While true, it ignores the fact that Nautilus was the first nuclear-powered submarine anywhere.

It's like saying Chuck Yeager was the first American to break the sound barrier.

I think I just realized that Steve may well be Bill Nichols' alter-ego :rotfl:

***

Guys, chill out. For all the downfalls of the history channel, focus on Hitler, etc. etc. - keeping politics and sociology out of it, the Type VII did have a serious historical siginificance and was, on all counts, not a failure by design or tactics - it was a failure because it fought on the wrong side and in a fleet supported by completely inadequate resources for its ambitions. Otherwise the total tonnage claims speak for themselves.

One hella of a sub:up:

Well, I didn't mean to say that all Americans are like that, just to make that one perfectly clear. As you might have guessed from the name, I'm indeed a fan of the US. :rock:

During her one year of studies in the US, she made friends for live, including her professor and his family, and some other people, who really helped her a lot, especially in the beginning. After the year, we spent over 4 weeks in the southeast, driving around with a car from Alabama to the Mississippi to Florida and back. We had a great time there and met a lot of really nice people. We still are in contact with them and we will definitely visit them again, hopefully before the end of this year. :yep:

So, I'm not saying people in the US are like that or people in the UK are like that, but the TV is, here and there.

Capt. LoneRanger -> human ignorance knows no limits. Evenconsidered that, these declarations are stupid, considering how many years have passed. I`m actually surprized you haven`t been asked about Wilhelm II.

It reminds me a history told by a friend of mine. He was travelling through the US and somewhere in mid-Montana was asked where had he come from.
Realising that "Poland" wouldn`t tell them anything, he said "Europe"
The people answered "Wonderful! We had visitors from France, Germany but from Europe - not yet"

As for propaganda - there was a lot of it. As a result, some people still think that Stalin was actually OK although he was by no means better than Hitler.

:rotfl:

Yeah, when the security personnel asked me, if I answered the part of my participation in the Nazi-Regime correctly, I first thought he was joking, until he looked up at me and I knew he really meant it.


On the really positive side, before I took off from Frankfurt, I had to take an inland-flight there. All Germans and they sat there like grimly looking puppets - nobody talked - just like the living dead.
When I flew from O'Hare to Birmingham, AL, we played a quiz, all together and the personnel tried to get a box full of roasted nuts empty by packing them into our bags and pockets. Completely foreign people started chatting with me and wanted to know places to visit in Germany and stuff. :()1:

yeah but these are the guys who made a top 10 battleships doc and didnt even have yamato on the list!

A fun link related to this topic:

http://www.combinedfleet.com/baddest.htm

I think the immigration entry form in the Us is rather odd from where ever you are from. I'm from Australia and have been to the US a few times on business.

On the form it used to ask, (not sure if it still does) if you are, or have ever been a member of the Nazi party or a Communist, but the one that always cracks me up is the next quest which asks if you have ever been involved with, or have taken part in acts of 'moral terpitude'.

I got a grilling from an officious twit last time I wnet when in a moment of levitiy I suggested that I had, frequently and with gay abandon, and hoped very muich to do so some more!

Has any one else ever done any 'moral terpitude' and if so can they remember very much about it, do they do that stuff in Canada, cos I should like to go there one day.

We don't have those questions anymore as - in deciding to be more like the EU (ya know, less judgmental) - we've chucked all standards of behavior.

;)

Roger that!......I am sorry to hear the same and would like to extend my most sincere apologies to you and your wife. I'm not sure why you would have to sign statements upon entering the US of A, however, on the other hand I along with many, I'm sure, are depressed with the dumbing down of the American school system......:nope:

And apologies for getting off topic....Take care.

First Post! Woohoo!

Anyhow... Officious Twit? That's a new one, I've never heard that one before. Twit does sound so proper though. :D

Serious question though. Do you even know what "moral turpiude" is? It covers things like murder... rape... assault... robbery. Things of that nature. When you're dealing with a lot of people coming off an airplane, you don't have time to put up with "those moments of levity." Heck, if its not busy though, I usually have a good time conversing with the traveling public. But these are questions that you have to answer truthfully, otherwise, you can be refused entry. If that was the case, someone could say one thing, and then reverse themselves on the grounds they "were only joking around."

As for the Nazi references, people from Germany aren't singled out for that question. It appears on all Visa Waiver Forms (I-94W). So someone from Spain, or England, or yes, Australia, will be asked to answer yes or no, as to whether they were a member of the Nazi Party, etc. Again, being a Nazi, or heck, a Communist, is grounds for inadmissibilty to the US. That question doesn't deal with Nazi's alone. It also covers being involved in acts of Espionage or Sabotage.

If you were to go to the US Consulate or Embassy in your own country and apply for a Visa, you would be asked these questions during the interview.

The way I see it, is get passed the formality, answer my questions, and then we can joke around. I take what I do very seriously.

On another note, depending on what you do for business. There is a new Visa Classifcation for Australians. I think it mainly deals with computers business, but without getting to political over it, it came about due to Australia being such an awesome ally in our current conflict.

Total thread hi-jack man. This was suppose to be about the History Channel. I use to love watching it a long time ago. Along with Discovery and A&E. Now it appears that programs have been dumbed down a lot. I can't even watch the Military Channel anymore. They have nothing new. I think I've seen everything on the Military Channel ten times over.

As for subs. Its a shame they didn't include older fast attacks like the 637 or 688 class. Mainstays of the Cold War. I would have picked the Ben Franklin class over the George Washington class. And throw some more Soviet subs in there. Perhaps I'm biased. Japanese subs of any era don't do anything for me. I love the newer British subs, like the Trafalger class, but find the WWII British subs pretty hideous looking. To each his own. :ping:

This was done in toungue and cheek, as all thier commericals at the time seemed to always have a photo of him (which is quite understandable).


As to your experiances, they are quite unfortunate and I am sorry you and your Mrs. had to endure them... if it makes you feel any better I am a triple threat.. I am of German, Norwegian, and Italian ancestry.. :o

good stuff :ping:

Lone ranger. Now you know what we Americans feel like when we go to Muslim state:rotfl:

Not sure how they arrived at the list seems a little off to me. The Type IX was certainly more productive than anything but the Gato and VII and the XXII was the one that influenced future design more than any other. The USS Nautilus has been described as Nuke powered XXI and when the allies saw this sub the Russian had to scrap a huge fleet of war built boats.
The I-1400??? Give me a break!!

The list should start with
Type VII
Type XXI
Gato
Type IX

After that the rest are wanna beees!

Wulfmann