Now there you see
 

do you see how kapitan measures the influence of the nation it is based on the issues described and equates a succesfull investment in military industrial complex with international influence. he doesnt measure by oil or iron ore or platinum like many including common public perception.

in short people will only listen when you can back it up

and wether or not canada does or doesnt need nukes
Canada does need to beef up
our self image amounts to the worst kind of delusion
MM

:up::up: MM

But Mush Martin, Sun Tzu also said:

Both you and Kapitan neglect the economic clout that Canada has. I used a smiling emoticon when I mentioned turning off the electricity but it's really no joke; as was said in the terror-free oil threat, the U.S. imports the most oil from Canada.

Do you believe that the only way for Canada to be a serious world player is for the CF to double in size? Security advisors south of the border are quite vocally pushing for decreased reliance on foreign oil. Iran quite astutely knows the power of this:

About a week after this article is published, USS John C. Stennis departs from its homeport to form a strike group eventually bound for the Persian Gulf. Now then, I believe you mentioned something about not measuring international influence with oil?

Trade is a monumental trump card for Canada. We should be funding our forces enough that they don't need to cancel exercises or retire perfectly good aircraft, but the doubling of the CF is really unnecessary.

Hm... very interesting points.:yep:
From a Non-Canadian perspective it has always been my perception that Cananda simply was not interested in military conflicts. There's something to be said for not bothering with 3rd world squabbles on the other side of the world...

Just out of curiousity Kapitan. Would you say there is still a good amount of anti-American sentiment in Russia? I can tell you first hand that in America, Russia is no longer considered an enemy at all... a turbulent country with a semi-tenuous political environment yes... but an enemy no.

I can tell you even more exactly (being a Russian).

The attitude of Russians was always very different from what an American might normally think. Actually, my perception is that many Americans DO see Russia as an enemy still...

Anyway - the vast overwhelming majority of Russians have never hated America as an enemy, and probably a large proportion actually always liked Americans. On the other hand, in a very typical fashion for that culture, they had and have a very suspicious attitude towards America, which can sometimes border on paranoia. Which is why many Russians are offended by the attitude Americans have towards it and its political environment now - sure they're not happy with things as they are in the country, but nothing gets them going more than America pointing a finger at it. They (and I too) believe that noone really has the right to do that.

I think one thing that Americans should be aware of is that there is such a thing as a 'Russian Way' (which Russians themselves can't quite articulate, either), and they take serious offense at anyone they perceive as meddling in their affairs (both at the government and popular level). Superpower or not, Russia is a state with very well-defined and broad-spanning interests. As soon as these interests are brought into question, Russians get miffed.

Again, I stress: most Russians like the average American. But most Russians have no interest in becoming the average American. They will insist on seeing the world their own way and don't take kindly to it being questioned by outsiders.

Interesting perspective, thanks. Really though, being an American born and raised, I can assure you that American's don't see Russia as an enemy...However, I have to admit that we do look down our noses at Russia abit. Not because of any cold war residual, but because American's perception of Russia in its current state is that its racked with deeply intrenched political corruption... not something to think of as a enemy or threat, but the American knee-jerk reaction to just about any country perceived to be in political corruption is to look down our noses at them.

My gut says that the level of political coruption that is perceived (through network and cable news services, etc) is probably exaggerated... quite frankly, I'm not sure if the average American really knows what the heck is going on over there... just rumor and speculation for the most part.

I should clarify so I don't come off as being unfriendly towards America in any way... what I mean is that there ARE quite a few Americans who think Russians are angry (whereas in reality they're very weary) and could potentially 'go berserk' and do something that would really hurt America or American interest. The chances of that are, and nearly always were close to zero. The other problem is that Americans like to project themselves onto Russia, and I think it's a tragic mistake to even begin to compare the two countries - of course Russia will end up looking bad. But Russia had a terrible, violent history - especially in the last 100 years - which America mercifully avoided. Much of the modern Russian character is shaped by the weariness of this violence and instability. Not that it does them any good.

Otherwise, I think the image of Russia not exaggarated, just mis-represented sometimes. Noone should be under any illusion of things there being good or bad - they're bad, but not in the ways one might always think. The key thing is that Russia as it is right now is a surprisingly stable state with a population that is surprisingly badly-off. I'd personally be far more optimistic if Russia were more unstable internally - but unfortunately the population is by and large so poor (besides a tiny and incredibly rich elite) and so politically passive that we can't even begin talking about democracy and other positive things there changing. It's a stable and not-really-good status quo. Most Russians will proudly announce that "we can survive in our country", and that's about as far as it goes for most of them (amazingly, it's a big improvement over the previous decade). Rather sad, really.

Where do you get that perception from? No one I know believes that.

EDIT: Really. Have you really met American's that have expressed that?

It depends on the individual upbringing, CCIP sounds like his mother accepted anyone regardless which is a good thing. (not being offencive)

My stepfather is a old soviet school, he was brought up in his early years with Stalin and Kreschev and so he doesnt like the Americans and that is passed on in me a tiny bit.

Hi guys sorry im late again
 

I feel that the people of most countries are interested in providing comfort
and security for their loved ones.

I am a Proud Canadian, and I am not inclined to get Canada involved in
the internal affairs of other nations. I am not a warmonger.

The economic diplomatic influences of canada exist as stated.

however, one should rely on ones self where possible.

doubling the canadian forces at their current level
would provide us with a force of approximately 126000 men
all branches. have you seen how many men belgium can muster.

their is a need for a realistic force capability but canadian civilian
population doesnt seem to understand the military as a tool.
and there seems to be some sort of underlying assumption
that if we ever need to go back to full scale war, that we
would have a year or three to gear up.

"I'll be back when the war is over an hour and a half from now"
(folk singer Roger James.)

I have already said that medling in the internal affairs of other nations
isnt on my list. But nations internal policies can often have an international
influence that may need to be dealt with. Ie Iraq or the afghan.

but seriously If Canada ever tried an oil boycott on the US for any reason
what do you guys suppose would happen.

the same thing as the japanese did when their oil was cut off by the states.??????
does any body believe they will continue peacfully with their neighbors if they
run out of fresh water??????

(remember boys these are meant to stimulate the conversation not
represent any type of anti american sentiment.)

MM

A further note to our american cousins
 

To our cousins to the south, if my last post was in any way offensive
it wasnt really meant to be.

Canadians seem to hold a feeling of "well yes were capable of it, but we dont need to do it during peacetime armies are for wartime"

We tend to look with the eyes of the underachiever at you guys.

it doesnt mean we cant fight it just seems we actively try to avoid it.

and like appeasment of the approach to ww2 we dont want any force building to provoke anybody and change them from friend to enemy.

their is much in the american penchant for nationalism that canada could use.

and You guys very very respectably actively support your military.

that last point is starting to come along here now for the first time
in my life.

Canada and the US are like siblings, and I believe that america looks
at canada like an undercapable underachieving younger sibling

just like when you look at your youngest brother at home.

MM

It would be a nice and convient takeover... afterall you guys already speak english.:arrgh!: :huh: :yep: ... deep down inside you *know* you wanna join us ...;) [j/k]

yeah
 

but can your codebreakers understand canadianized french
MM

deep down inside you *know* you wanna join us ...;)

Well I dont know if we all "want" it but I feel it is
a socio economical inevitablity
MM

Great! Time to start a petitin to Congress. You start one in your Parliment and we'll start one in ours!!:up: The United States of North America.:yep:

Hm..... time to start a poll:hmm: :)

YOU know this is that part of the US where people are so clever
they dont pay taxes to washington

we have a lot to lose here
MM

Well Mush, why not buy a collins class from us??

while diesel, if you canadians ever suffer any military challenge from the states when you start your takeover, one of these babies got inside a carrier task force n 'sank' the nimitz, or something like that.. and more to the point got away again!

well
 

wed be honoured the Collins are an excellent class and a very capable
design, however Our new sub procurment allowance wont likely come
up in Canada until after these fine subs have warn out there careers
and gone to the breakers.

If you need a breakers by the way apparently we do that.
MM

Sorry, the job is taken by most of South East Asia!!