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I in truth didn't played Sh4 yet (just installed it almost an year ago and just made a first glance). But after read some threads on SH4 forum I noticed that the ATI cards also have sun halo absence (this is true for nvidia in Sh3!!!). LOL! So, sorry to just said that only Nvidia is the "culprit".:oops: Anyhow, again, the main two directions of this tweak are these: 1. No more than 4xMSAA or gamma correction to preserve sun halo and dense smoke (true for sh3 at least) -Can someone confirm this too for Sh4? 2. Use nHancer to unlock that hidden compatibility seeting 20000000: EA Strategy GAmes to have AA on the entire scene. (again at least true for SH3 and some others sims) Again, can someone confirm this for SH4? |
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Yes, you are right in truth. After read some posts here in SH4 forums I saw that ATI cards really have sun halo absence too, but only in SH4 (see my last post above).:up: Sorry!:oops: |
Rubini, great concise write up. I was fighting with the drivers and wondering what was up with the loss of halo with gammma correction AA. I was also unaware that over 4xAA would loose it as well. Thanks man.
Now if I can figure out why my old version of nhancer will not uninstall properly I will be set.:doh: |
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"The problems: - nVidia hardware is really good but the image quality "out of box" really donīt mach the one of the ATI cards. The main motive is that nVidia uses another type of AntiAliasing (MultiSampling - more FPS, worse AA result, more shimmering texture in general) that isn't so good as the one of the Ati cards (SuperSampling). IMHO, this is really a cheat that nVidia uses to show more FPS on the bench sites..." unquote Not to offend anybody, but I'm puzzled why it is implied that nVidia does not perform at AA Supersampling.:-? I have never had any problems with nVidia drivers (at present 169.21 WHQL) and AA Supersampling and good FPS. For my overclocked EVGA 8800GTS 640MB on a 22" wide screen at 1680 x 1050 I use following settings in the nVidia Control Panel: "Manage 3D settings" > Global Settings (or game specific Program Settings): Anisotropic filtering: 8x Antialiasing - Gamma correction: On Antialiasing - Mode: Override any application setting Antialiasing - Setting: 16xQ Antialiasing - Transparency: Supersampling Conformant texture clamp: Use hardware Error reporting: Off Extension limit: Off Force mipmaps: None Multi-display/mixed_GPU acceleration: Single display performance mode Stereo - Display mode: Use vertical interlace monitor Texture filtering - Anisotropic sample optimization: Off (greyed out) Texture filtering - Negative LOD bias: Clamp Texture filtering - Quality: High quality Texture filtering - Trilinear optimization: Off (greyed out) Threaded optimization: Auto Triple buffering: On Vertical sync: Force on Although some time ago I took a look at nHanser, I decided I don't need it, as the above settings in the nVidia Control Panel provide what I want. Image quality is superb, textures crisp, beautiful sun halo, all photorealistic. As a previous ATI user I know abt image quality.:know: In order to totally eliminate/prevent any jaggies in SH4 it is important (for me at least) to use "Antialiasing - Mode: Override any application setting". Any other alternative settings than "override" give me jaggies. I use the Battle off Samar Single Mission to test graphic settings due to the very fierce action with simultaneous explosions etc., and my frames range between 20 and 60 fps (60 fps max. LCD native) with all maxed out in the game itself.:up: These details are just to share my experience that correctly chosen driver settings in the Control Panel is all I need for optimal visuals. Additionally I use Riva Tuner 2.06 for OC only. |
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Thanks to share your experience. Note that 16xQ isnīt a SSAA, but a new multisample AA by nVidia called Coverage Sample AA, what isnīt yet like the SSAA (speaking in image quality). Also note that the Supersampling in your configuration above is just for transparency.:yep: Even the MSAA 4x is good but if you look in more detailed way you yet will see some shimmering texture here and there. Only SSAA really get rid of all shimmering textures. I donīt have so much experience in SH4 tweaks (Iīm yet in truth a SH3 player...for a while), so, at least for SH3 if you use a nvidia card with more than 4xMSAA the sun halo go away.:hmm: |
Hi Rubini, and thanks for your prompt response.
From my SH3 days I know of your modding skills and thus realize that your technical knowledge is superior.:know: I have been blinded by the stunning visuals in SH4 that my above mentioned settings have given me so far, but your additional info tantalizes me to experiment some more with alternative settings. I just didn't think it possible there might be even better yet visuals in store for me with other ("lesser") settings.:roll: Just like somebody else further above mentioned, I too thought that the highest possible/feasible settings would automatically give the best results. Now you made me think again, mate. For instance I did not know abt that 16xQ stuff you mentioned. I'm curious however, what I might lose in terms of transparency, if I go from SSAA to MSAA.:hmm: As a sidenote, I haven't been playing SH3 (with GWX + several more mods) for some time, because the geometry is distorted on my 22" widescreen. With my earlier 21" CRT I virtually lived inside SH3.:arrgh!: GWX 2 being out, is a hint for a fix in this context permitted in this SH4 thread? |
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I also have now a 26" wide LCD monitor. Iīm yet able to play Sh3 in 4:3 even using this new monitor...at day light the image is soberb but...what is pissing me of is that the nights in LCD monitor are too dark and (if you just put more bright) the sea texture just isnīt good at night. Iīm in the point that I will try to really make another ENV files (for night only) just to have better textures on a LCD pannel. Do you also have this "at night" colors/degrade problems/poor image on your LCD?:hmm: Just a botton note: we in the GWX team already tried to port SH3 to a wide view (messing with the cameras FOV) but without success.:damn: |
Guess I don't much understand all that goes on here but here is some results of my Model T type computer. :lol:
I run an old Asus A7N8X Deluxe REV 2.0 MB, AMD Athlon XP 3200+ CPU, three 1 GB sticks of RAM ( 184-pin DIMM 128MX64 DDR PC3200 Unbuffered ) by "Crucial Tech", Seagate Baracuda 120 GB 8MB Cache Serial ATA HD, Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS 7.1 speaker system, WIN XP Home w/SP2, 550 watt power supply and a good ole Nvidia 7800 GS OC 256mb AGP 8X video card. My AA is set at 4X, rest is application controled. http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...ardnumber2.jpg Results of the 84.21 ( recomended by BFG nvidia mfg. ) drivers are not to bad a sunset IMHO. ;) http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...utifullday.jpg So why all the fuss about big bad video cards and top notch Nvidia drivers? http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...n/ponder21.gif |
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Thanks for the reply. The problem is that some guys didnīt know about the max 4x AA for nvidia to avoid sun halo problems (again: at least on Sh3). BTW, i noticed that in your pic above you are missing some good image quality...yours wires lines are broken..this could be "fix" by using transparency SSAA for example. So this is just a crusade for the more perfect image that IMHO is one of the best things that these expensive cards have to offer for us, gamers.:up: |
I hope this thread keeps going so that folks can share their 'discoveries' of best settings for cards...
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Thanks for the reply. The problem is that some guys didnīt know about the max 4x AA for nvidia to avoid sun halo problems (again: at least on Sh3). BTW, i noticed that in your pic above you are missing some good image quality...yours wires lines are broken..this could be "fix" by using transparency SSAA for example. So this is just a crusade for the more perfect image that IMHO is one of the best things that these expensive cards have to offer for us, gamers.:up:[/quote] The lines you see broken are at quite a distance and during playing time you would never notice, unless you are really the rivet counter. Maybe you have those big dollars but I don't. I'll keep what I have and have just as a good game with plenty of eye candy as you. Do you really tweak your computer down to the last bit just to see real life events? Doesn't make sense but what the hey everyone has their own way of doing things. :lol: With all due respect you can have your Mercedes. http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...n/Mercedes.jpg I'll keep my Chevy........er... Model T.:) http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...ModelTFord.jpg Have a good hunt Rubini. :up: |
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No, I also donīt have money...iīm just a stubborn eye candy guy that was bought my last video card and rig almost 4 years ago. So, now with a shinning new rig...just imagine!:lol: |
Trying your settings
Ok I'm trying your settings in my career, since I'm in a very interesting protracted battle with four merchies surrounded by five escorts. It's after midnight and no moon, so you can guess what I'm able to tell. I'm getting some funky blackout effects in the water at a certain range.
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...215714_441.jpg This screenie is with your settings, so I'm quite sure it is a game artifact of some kind. I might have to reinstall. I'm going to check in the daytime first though. The shot is brightened but still retains its full range of hues. I immediately noticed that with Rubini settings my fps went from my normal 25 in the bridge and external camera view looking at the submarine to 38, a significant increase! I don't notice any difference in image quality here in the dark but I'll wait to analyze that. Here's a moonlight scene with the old settings. http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...210510_590.jpg And how about a nice nVidia sunset, old settings http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...181637_391.jpg Yeah, the new part of the antenna looks like I could play with that anti-aliasing. Never noticed that before playing the game. And... http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...7_74435_37.jpg I could at least wait until the boat rolls straight up and down before I take the shot! If I can just get electrolytic caps not to explode I love my graphics card, nVidia 7600GT, attempted SLI configuration when I finally get 2 cards working at the same time again! You can just see leovampire in the beautiful colors of the sky. He wasn't just a tinkerer, he was an artist. A FINE artist. Oh, on Capt Frank's settings I had the same old 25 frames per second and worse graphics. Oh well. It's all fun. |
How can we correct the smoke texture? I agree that with Supersample 16x smoke is an issue. Specially burning ships look not too good. But the ships themself look fantastic! The wires are straight and the overal image is smooth and quiet. The sun isn't a problem at all except at sunset but you can disable AA runtime with shift+pageup/down.
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A Rubini settings pics!
OK, here's a pic with Rubini settings:
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...172553_332.jpg It's got the same thing going on with the wires as Elder Pirate's pics. I think it has something to do with the screen dump routine because I don't notice it in the game. Here's the settings: http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...isettings1.jpg http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...isettings2.jpg http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...isettings3.jpg And a final screenie using Rubini settings with a nice escort going down http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...162543_238.jpg So my final analysis is that my graphics are not visibly better but my frame rate went from 25 to 35. It was a fine result! |
Let's try apples to apples
At least as close as I can get without a sunset right now in the Formosa Straits.
I tried to duplicate my periscope shears shot without the sunset. http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...192818_941.jpg So what do you think? I haven't seen it yet! Also you have to think we have a screen dump program and Photobucket resampling of unknown characteristics here. This is NOT a controlled environment. Nice pics though! Edit: I'm going to say the antenna is a little better. We'll have to put it with a sunset behind it for a final appraisal but for now I'm going to say I see a VERY SLIGHT improvement! Opinions? Insults? Jokes? Better pictures?:yep: |
Ah, now all the jaggies are gone. What I did wrong? I didn't set it to Global. Everything back to normal. Even that sun halo looks great!:up:
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I believe it's not all 169.xx drivers that are affected by the AA bug. IIRC 169.02 / 169.04 work fine.
There's not much doubt in my mind Nvidia AA is inferior to ATI's. And some of us have noticed for a while the general jaggedness of the wires/stays in SH4: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...hlight=quality Thanks for the tip about AA Compatibility, Rubini, I'm going to give it shot tonight! |
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