I was just saying I think the media and parents blame games and movies too often for violence in society. I think it's the parents to blame mostly for the younger kids under 18 that commit these types of crimes and perhaps a few that have grown up a little past 18. Maybe up to 25 even. I think if you could have gone back in time and put a camera in the house of some of these nut jobs prior to their criminal act, you would see that most of their issues were derived from abusive parents that fought a lot in front of them. Dad or mom may have been a bad drunk and possibly abused them (mentally or physically or both). The kid probably turned to playing video games (their happy place) to release their anger. It was their escape from reality and allowed them to release their anger without killing someone in real life. Games are a good thing!

What tends to happen is these kids grow up and their whole life seems pointless. They become jealous of people who go to work happy when they don't. They are jealous of people who have a happy relationship going on. They are jealous of how so and so has more money than them. They are jealous of skinny people, or strong people. Their whole world seems like one lonely and depressing void that they can't escape from anymore. Games don't even seem to help them now because they realize their problems aren't ever going to change. In their mind they escape from reality and then the whole world seems to become like a video game or movie to them because their mind wants to be entertained and happy. Like Leonardo Dicaprio in the movie "The "Beach". He was banned from his peers and just went plain crazy and thought he was Super Mario Bros. or something.

Movies DON'T create psycho's, Movies only make psycho's more creative". -Scream

Once this mental breakdown comes into play they have become oblivious to what is real and fake anymore and I honestly think they just don't know what the hell they are doing. They probably think they have "unlimited ammo or God mode" running in the background and nothing can stop them. There becomes no remorse or consequences to them anymore. If anyone felt like that they would do something crazy. When you feel invincible you would do anything you wanted to do. Of course drugs and alcohol would just add to the fire and intensify their mental lapse, possibly furthering their rage if they were upset about something or someone in particular.


Note:
This brings me back to the weed thread I started not too long ago. I think weed might be the fix to problems like this. Honestly, how many people do you know go on a shooting spree while high as a kite on weed? ZERO! All you want to do on weed is eat, eat, eat some more, and then maybe just a bit more, and then pass the hell out happy as you can be.

Weed could be a good thing and stop violence! :yep:

Bingo! :yep:

Scandium still doesn't get it. :nope:

Periscope, have you considered the next generation? :hmm:

It isn't. You just don't get it on your news sources when it happens elsewhere.

Perhaps because there is nothing to "get". Within any society, no matter its form, how peaceful it is, or how violent it is, you are going to have a certain amount of animal like behaviour; because when you strip everything else away, then that is what you find at our core, that we are animals. All of us. We all have the capacity hardwired into us to commit all manner of crime and mayhem, it is instinctive and it is biological. That most of us, no matter what our religion, ethnicity, gender, age, socioeconomic background, income, occupation, family background, marital status, or any number of other factors don't act as animals while others do is not because of any single variable. That is what you and others like you, who hold yourself up on some kind of pedestal and divide mankind into two categories based on their religion, don't get.

What all those variables can do, however, is find some correlation among certain things and, factoring in cultural variables, explain why certain criminal behaviours are more prevalent in some societies than others, or why one society expresses its aggression in one form and another in a different form. But there are no simplifications. For instance, studies have shown that fewer married men commit suicide than single men (controlling for age, income, and other variables). But so what?

What you don't get is that, though there are almost reasons for everything, they are almost never predictable, easily explainable, or attributable to any one set of variables; even in lifetime identical twin studies where both have the same genes and are raised in identical circumstances, there is considerable variation in the paths these individuals will take. Yet you think you can reduce everything to a religion that is practiced by 1.2 billion people and draw conclusions attributable to the entire vast group from a single variable, their religion, as it is used by a tiny subset of the entire group. That is a joke. Especially when you consider that the number of people killed in North America by our Muslim populations (and we have tens of millions of Muslims in Canada and the US alone), whether immigrant, native born, or whatever, are but a drop of water in the ocean compared to the number of people killed in our countries by members of the predominant religions for all manner of reasons.

The Muslim boogeyman under the bed is just the latest cynical political ploy to keep the population compliant and distracted from the bigger issues, the ones that result in the deaths or exploitation of thousands daily which people have become desensitized to in their need to defeat terror so they can feel secure from it, and neither will ever be accomplished. Terrorism is a tool, not a state or a person. You can no more defeat it than you can defeat robberies or ordinary homicides. You can try and prevent it, and you can capture or kill the perps/organizers, but the problem itself will never go away. It will always manifest itself wherever it can be used by those desperate enough, or fanatical enough, to employ it and who have no legitimate means available to accomplish their objectives. It is as simple as that. And if you think bombins mosques or gassing or sterilizing Muslims, or practicing other more subtle forms of religious suppression and/or genocide, will accomplish anything other than inflaming the underlying illness, then not only do you not get it, but you are part of the problem.

Oh yes, we can just ignore the Islamic campaigns against the dhimmi coming from Mohammedans.

We can ignore the fact that the Arab world has invested more in terrorism, arms exports and exporting Islam than in infrastructure. All "for the good of the people."

We can ignore the fact that Mohammed violently seized power in Arabia.

We can ignore the fact that Islam has made more violent conquests than the Crusades.

We can ignore the fact that Islam has massacred civilians for refusing to convert to Islam.

We can ignore the fact that Islam is bent on World Domination

We can ignore the fact that Islamic clerics have repeatedly called for the destruction of the west in accordance with Islam.

We can ignore the fact that in Islam there is no freedom but what Islamic doctrine dictates.

After all, just ignore the problem and it'll go away.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Quran.htm

And it's true. The fact that the dhimmi exist is a problem for Mohammedans, therefore the "solution" is to kill all the dhimmi.

Ignore the threat, ignore our rights, ignore our freedom, ignore our life and it'll all go away.

Since you're such a vocal advocate of this solution scandium, would you like to volunteer first?

I disagree with your premise that humans are animals but that's less relevant than your essential assumption.

Tell me, would you agree that Nazis were more evil, violent and animal-like because the evil was preached and coded, taught in schools, published in books and accepted by a great proportion of Germany's nationals as the goals and virtues of their country?

More, though I don't know why I bother - it's so elementary:
Do you have a book or teacher or philosopher that you accept as of divine origin that teaches that such things are good and righteous?

Muslims do.

I don't.

Do you?
Yes, it's all coincidence. No pattern recognition here. Let's go analyze fractals in our spare to. Move along!
There are dozens of religions. Why are people like myself not dividing up mankind into numerous bits and pieces?

And why not look in the opposite direction, toward Islam. Is it not the ultimate pedestal standing to claim the world MUST globally adhere to their interpretation of divinity, that to do otherwise warrants war, death, terror and subjugation, all according to a highly documented and codified 1400 year old system.
Yes, the anthropology of Islam's origins among the Arabian pagans of the 7th century is very fascinating but it doesn't change the fact of what the essence of Islam is, claims to be and teaches and obligates its adherants to do and obey.
Maybe there's a connection. Maybe not. Start another thread. If there is a correlation, saying "so what" is sheer ignorance.
Define "tiny subset."

What is tiny about almost half of the 46,000+ Arabs recently polled by Al-Jazeera being in favor of Osama bin Laden.

Put your head back in the sand, Scandium. Enjoy the darkness.
Your warped sense of humor is duly noted.
Who told you that Jihad is solely waged by war and killing? Pity the ignorant.

But if we must talk about wars and killings, be my guest - again, all justified by an established and accepted religious code of law that to deny it is to be blasphemous.

There are no coincidences here nor randomness.
What a sad little man. Preventing terror is religious suppression but subjugation to Islam isn't.

Enough said. Skybird, I'm with you. Waste of time here. :yep:

Can't blame shooting games. Not enough head shots in this incident.

Then what are we? We belong to the same genetic family as the great apes (genus hominidae) and share 95% of our DNA with chimpanzees. What makes us "special" are our opposable thumbs and well developed neo-cortex, the first making us especially adept at making and using tools, and the second giving us the ability to reason and to think analytically; and that part of our brain is constantly at war with the various portions of the lower brain that are responsible for our emotions, intuition, and instinct. Strip away those two advantages and we would, like our ancestors further up the evolutionary timeline, have become extinct thousands of years ago since we are physically very weak when compared to our natural competitors.

This is the kind of simplistic generalization that gets us into so much trouble with so many different people, though it fits in perfectly with your take on Islam and Muslims so it actually makes sense coming from you.

The Nazis could not have come to power, and their "evil" could not have been preached, coded, taught in schools, etc, without the support of the German business community and aristocratic class, which they had, and all of this before Adolf Hitler ever became Der Fuhrer. Were all of these business people (not all of who were even German, there was much iternational support early on as well) and aristocrats who enabled, directly, Hitler's rise to power and supported him throughout his reign "evil"? They were, every one of them, card carrying members of the Nazi party and supporters of it; though only a very few, mainly the ones who were later appointed to government positions that brought them into direct contact with policy, ever stood trial for war crimes.

And how about those Nazis with more intricate party ties, including participation in war crimes, who never stood trial at Nuremburg but were instead recruited by the intelligence and defence agencies of both the US and the USSR (those involved with the V-2 rocket program were especially valuable, and at least two former Nazis went on to play a big role in America's emerging space program, becoming founding members of NASA) - were they "evil"?

What you are describing are the traits associated with those involved with the camps, as described in "The Theory and Practice of Hell" (written by sociologist and camp survivor); though if you read say Primo Levi's "Survival in Aushwitz" (a Jewish Italian survivor who, in his later years went on to commit suicide), things aren't so clear cut: many of the prison kommandos, the inmates who were put in charge of their fellow inmates, were often more callous and brutal than the Nazis running the camps, and this was true no matter what colour triangle they wore... and man's inner animal nature is a theme that runs throughout that book, in tandem with the efficient, beauracratic, inhuman, indifferent, machine-like atmosphere that pervaded the inner workings of the camp from top to bottom. That was one of the things that was the most "evil" of all - how otherwise ordinary nobodies could wield so much power over life and death with so much indifference. Anyway, that is a bit of a tangent.

You don't? When did you give up the Jewish faith, or do Jews no longer believe that they are God's Chosen People and therefore separate and distinct from the gentiles?

No, because I don't buy into any of the monotheistic religious BS no matter what it calls its god, its holy book, or its place of origin. And the big three all have more in common than do differences.

You're not? You are one of what, 12 million? Yet you clearly believe yourself and others of your faith are entitled to that which you're so ready to deny 1.2 billion others who are not - the right to practice their own religion, the same as you do your own; in fact, you live in a state that goes a step beyond that, in that it practices apartheid based on religious/ethnic differences, and even bases citizenship on whether or not one is Jewish, despite the fact that it is the birthplace of all three monotheistic religions and sacred to each.

Right now I would say the ultimate pedestal is the one that has a 200,000 strong footprint in a region it has no historical ties to, based largely on its own ideological interpretation of divinity (the god given right to American style freedom) and which also maintains a military presence in almost every region of the world, has the world's largest military budget (which it spends more on than the rest of the world does, combined, on their own militaries) and owns, by far, the world's largest inventory of nuclear weapons - enough to destroy the world hundreds of times over. Then there is the economic hegemony, but never mind that... its the 7th century we're stuck on here, and how anyone can fear the man in a cave armed with a club when we're defended by every kind of modern weapon ever invented, is just beyond me. I mean... why stop there? There are lots of things that can kill you, and most of them more likely and many of them entirely natural. The whole point of terrorism is to spread fear, and if you've not only bought into but are helping to spread it yourself then who do you think is profitting?


How many deaths is Bin Laden personally responsible for? There's the 3,000 on 9/11, and maybe a few thousand more (if I'm not giving him too much credit) in the various suicide bombings before and after that he has been personally tied to.

By any poll, GWB enjoys the support of at least 1/3rd of Americans (and millions more from other countries), so we are easily talking well over a hundred million people, just to be on the conservative side, when we take into account his international support... and he is responsible for how many innocents killed in Iraq? By the most conservative of estimates, and even I believe by his own admission, 30,000+ Iraqis who had nothing to do with 9/11 and have never attacked America or its allies... so its all a matter of perspective. Personally I don't put GWB on the same level as Bin Laden, though I do think he's done enough to deserve impeachment and trial at the Hague for war crimes once removed from office (to be more specific, I think he should stand trial for 'planning, initiating, and waging a war of aggression and crimes against peace', which was one of the more common charges at Nuremburg, and which this war with Iraq certainly qualifies as, "coalition" or no coalition... if I recall Germany had a coalition too).

Anyway, that is enough for now. I am typed out.

And on re-reading what I wrote its just as well... my grammar and spelling are definitely not improving with time.

Hijacking this thread? Well, only one minor participation from me, Concenring those 46000 from Al Jazeera, and 1/3 of Americans supporting Bush.

One third of Muslims in Great Britain were found in a representative analysis published by the BBC just some weeks ago to openely support and favour the idea of introducing Koranic law in Great Britain. The quote is even higher with the young ones. also, ovber one third thought that violance (in the undersatanding of terroristic violance) is acceptable if it helps to impose Islam on the west/Great Britain.

Roughly one year ago, or a little bit longer, in Berlin Turkish and Albanian school boys and girls up to age 18 were asked for a TV docu about traditonal education, honour murder, and Islamic law. More than the half of the boys found killing family members is okay, offended the Germans in general, while the majority of girls at least did not express opposition, some even agreed to honour murder if the family's "honour" was "hurt" by a female member.

In Germany, a famous and courageous Turkish woman, a lawyer, just has given up after many years of fighting for Muslim women's rights in Germany, saying that she has no more power left, has acchieved almost nothing, is massively threatened by murder (already attempts have taken place), and that she does not receive noticable support from the muslim communities in Germany. It is assumed that the organization helping Muslim women being chased by their families, and that raised in the wake of her engagement, will go down, to. It is routine in German courts that Muslim witnesses of crimes against females reject cooperation, even more so, when the case is a case of internal family violance.

The Netherlands currently see more native European Dutch citizens leaving the country and turning their backs on it, than Muhammedan colonists are moving in. The speed of it's Muslimisation is increasing that way: Euzropean Dutch evade, Muslims move in.

German integration ministre on visit in Turkey currently just has been lectured by Erdogan (yesterday or the day before) that we do make too little progress towards allowing education in Turkish language in public schools in general. While demanding that, at the same time we get lectured by Erdogan that we also do make too little progressn with our efforts to integrate the foreigners. Obviously his view on integration, and the German's understanding of integration (and my defintion of integration anyway) are lightyears apart. Erdogan'S understanding of integration of Turks in Germany is that Germans take over Turkish living habits, including Islamic rules. He undersatands it to be the Turkish state'S responsebility to prevent Turkish "immigrants" to melt into German society, he also sees the Turkish state responsible for preventing that Turkish immigrants eventually leave Islam. But both problems already were existant before Erdogan came to power.

Erdogan also has repeatedly demanded in the past that critical tones towards Turkey shall be shut down in German medias, demonstrations, comments, political statements, and so on. Islam meets Turkish nationalism. who needs free speech and free expression in medias?

Back to Canada.

Crikey. Can't we even have an old fashioned, senseless school shooting without it turning into a islam-vs-the world discussion anymore? It is very simple. Make a man feel like a loser, give him a gun and raise him to believe that it is all their fault, then you get this.

Religion is hardwired into the human mind, you just can't help it. The labels differ, but there is no inherent evil in any religion I know of. It is all carried out by evil individuals. If they didn't use jihad as an excuse, they used socialism like the german and italian terrorists of the 70s did.

Okay, a little update on yesterdays shooting.

"A young woman was killed as a result of the shooting"
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/natio...ts-dawson.html

By the way, kudos to Montreal Police for taking care of this the way it should have been.
In 1989 when something like this happened, the police stayed outside and the shooter rampaged inside the school for over half an hour. This time, they went inside right away, and faced the gunman and neutralized it within minutes. It's good to see that we have learned our lesson.

Montreal Police and Special Unit Squad.:up: :up: :up:

Please do your loved ones and yourself a favor. Go out and buy a Quran or at least read it online. Get to truly know Islam.

FYI, Jihad is a Quranic command, every sylabble of it viewed by Islam as G-d's authentic word. It is not some appendage added at a later date by mere earthlings, with no divinely authoritative foundation.

I read somewhere that the shooter had 20-30 minutes of time until he was taken out. Is that incorrect?

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this done by the people that reads the book? The quran is a political tool used by radicals. Just as the bible was a pretext to invade Palestine by the crusaders near millenias ago. A tool. However that does not make islam an evil religion. Nor does it make Christianity an evil religion. Or judaism for that matter. I do believe there is some notion of Israel being promised to Abraham by God himself, inspite of the countrly already being populated by the canaans. or something. I am not strong in Bible, but there IS a flimsy argument to claim right to a land if I saw any.

Funny thing is, that is how most civilizations of the world justifies their claims of land and right to existence. In Denmark, we believe that our nation was justified by god when our national flag fell from the sky during a holy crusade in Lativa or some such rubbish. Before that, our land was created by the norse gods, who also created us and put is in the outer world. Is that evil? In my opinion, no. All people need a place to live and sustenance. When religion leads to war I believe purely in the von Clausewitz definition. A means to gain material benefits.

In any case, to get to truly know Islam, or any religion, wouldn't you have to live by its tenets? Would I truly know and judaism by merely reading the Bible? If that isn't enough, then the additional laws that exist on judaism, then? Would that be enough?

No, I'm talking specifically about students shooting down friends,professors, bystanders etc.. in schools and colleges.
That kind of violence is specific to North America.
In Europe we don't have it.
I'm just stating facts, and so I wonder what is so specific about america and canada that those shootings exist.
Do you get my point ? :roll: