My dad was saying a week ago that he thinks theres a possibility that this could lead to the use of nuclear arms. Israel is out of control. They have lost all perspective. If they are going to bomb all of Lebannon to the ground because of 2 POWs what would happen if Israel was really threatened? And should Syria and Iran decide to weigh in much more heavily the US military, drowning in the Iraqi quick sand, wont beable to help Israel. Nukes are a possibility. There is a very strong apocalyptic streak in contemporary right wing of the US admin (all them neo-cons and such) and Israel is a theocratic nation (it is the sate embodiment of Judaism) so if they feel it is threatened they will use any and all force to save their home and destroy the evil dooers.

Skybird's quite right. At best, war is an act of assasination where the other guy has no chance. When war is "fair", it's a craps shoot who dies.

PD

I posted in the SH3 forums a reply where I explained a theory of the origins of warfare as a means for human survival. War is inherently unfair because it was a response to scarcity which had unfairly distributed resources in such a way that all of the human beings living in tribes could not survive. So war is not just unfair, it is a manifestation of human frustration over his unfair lot. Though it has grown beyond that and become a cultural abhorration. Human culture is now very dysfunctional. We need a cosmic therapist. War means death, war means taking from someone that which is not yours,war is unfairness manifest. War cannot lead to justice.

If Isreal is gonna drop a nuke, isn't that opening the pandoras box?

Markus

Some wars are just, and some are unjust......but by no means is war something truly desired except by the power-hungry, the insane, or those naieve (sp?).

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight; nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety; is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better persons than himself." - John Stuart Mills


At what point would the United states begin waging war against Al-Qaeda were they making constant attacks from across the Mexican border? 10 lives? 40? Or maybe a thousand, or two thousand? What if we did nothing? What if Israel did nothing? But if I recall, that's exactly what the Jews did the first time they were targeted by madmen ben on their extermination. The Jews didn't fight back. And so they died.

When considering the population comparison of Israel and the United States in the terms of how many people are being killed by terrorist attacks and the impact that it is making, the cost of doing nothing......is simply staggering.

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_basics.php

http://philip.greenspun.com/politics/israel/

http://www.israel.org/MFA/Terrorism-...Violence+a.htm

http://avpv.tripod.com/AmericanVictims.html

http://www.terrorism-victims.org/ter...html#terrorism

http://www.terrorism-victims.org/ter...n-america.html

https://daveblog.wordpress.com/2006/...tionate-force/

I couldn't find the site that had the statistics of population loss in comparison with the U.S. and Israel, but I'll get it up sooner or later.

"War is cruelty, you cannot refine it."

Always thought that was a better quote than his more famous "War is hell."

http://www.born-today.com/Today/pix/...m_tecumseh.jpg

Yes but remember, Yahoshua, that these events are rooted in a history much older than any of our lives. Israel created a great amount of instability when it was forceably introduced into the Middle East and those tensions have not been done away with. As far as al-Qaeda is concerned the US started the war which we perceive began on 9/11. Its not that we haven't been doing anything. it;s that we've been doing everything to the Middle east for more than 100 years. many muslims in the Middle east see the Western World in general as guilty of crimes against their forebearers and also that we continue to promote instability within their countries. And they are right. I'm not condoning 9/11 or Hezbullah butI'm saying we started this a long time ago. We took our superior power and imposed on them our might. We have conveniently forgotten that. I'm not condoning terrorism but the fact is that we practiced terrorism against these people long before they turned it back on us. So this is an endless circle of violence that is generations old. War begets war and people, especially the traditionally based islamic culture, have a long memory for crimes against their nation.

And even if hezbollah started this what is bombing Lebannon back to the state it was after the last war gonna do? It was this kind of destruction that opened the door for a group like Hezbollah to become so powerful. When you wound a people they will not stand by and be attacked. They will fight back. 9/11 was a culmination of anger and revenge for everything we've done to these people since our forebearers entered babylon and crossed the Sumerian heartland and declared that we were there to civilize them and free them from tyrants. Well we became the tyrants and they are just doing what any of us would do. They're fighting. And as long as we continue to bomb their cities and kill their families there will always be a place for terrorism and hatred and hezbollah will grow ever stronger. And if not hezbollah then another group. They aren't the original terrorists. We are and we are still the terrorists. How do you differntiate between a Hezbollah rocket in haifa on a train station and an israeli Air Strike in Beirut on an apartment building? Israel is terrorizing the Lebanese. There are no good guys here. Its only bad deeds begetting bad deeds. And we will do this again in 20years if nothing changes.

So, what is your idea for changing the situation?

Go ahead P_Funk, say it you know you want to. You've been dancing around it.

Ya know what is really stupid if you think about it...Why would or should Israel wait until it is nuked to use nukes instead of using them first on Iran, Syria or whoever else it saw fit to destroy it who have Proclaimed...Proclaimed that they would do the same?...Granted the "We Will Bury You" theme did not pan out but Russia it seems has more restraint then I think Muslims have in Iran....hum what a gamble...wait and see if one falls huh is the solution of the Scandiums here?...what a gamble.

What is it with you and needing a universal solution for anything to make sense? I don't have to know how to create world peace to know that war isn't gonna do it.

Fine, you wanna know why what Israel is doing isn't gonna destroy Hezbollah or end terrorist threats against their country? Because Hezbollah became powerful because of exactly what Israel is doing. The instability created by the total bombing compaign against Lebanon actually limits the elected government's ability to function. Israel has destroyed the infrastruction of Lebanon. Infrasctructure is the life blood of a government. Israel is crippling the very people they say they want to take control of the areas which Hezbollah is holding. In fact the weakness that this kind of destruction creates is exactly how terrorist groups like Hezbollah get footholds in countries. Plus if Israel cripples the entire country the young men who have watched their families die and their world be destroyed will go to the people who are promising to save it or at least get revenge. Why do you think Hitler was so powerful? He won over people because he was promising to reclaim Germany's power after France had humilated and crippled Germany with the Treaty of Versailles.

This kind of warfare ony creates more hatred and breeds more violence. This can't end with war. Diplomacy is how you achieve peace. The only problem is that Israel won't deal. The peace process was looking promising with palestine for a while. Guess who ended it? Israel. Lebanon and Palestine are being backed into a wall, again. We all know what they'll do when they're backed into a corner. The same thing they've done for the last 40 years.

yes... by all means Iceman... lets preemtively destroy anyone and everyone who doesn't like us...

if this mindlessness had've prevailed during the 60s, none of us would be here discussing this now...

and you know nothing about Iran or Iraq... you've never been there, and probably couldn't even find it on a map... just as you probably know nothing about the former Soivet Union...

at least i've been to the place... before the Shah was deposed, spending a few crew rests over in Iran... and what i know first hand about the former Soviet union shall remain unsaid here...

yet you are so ready to make such an assertive statement of fact about both these places...

what a load of crap you've managed to fill your mind with... and worse, to convince yourself it has any validity whatsoever...


--Mike

You sure you're a Christian? I wouldn't bring this up except for the fact that you throw it in everyone's face so routinely, quote scripture, and even have it in your sig. So who would Jesus nuke Iceman? You know in a way I love you man, because with your every post like this - where you advocate nuclear holocaust in countries who are not only not even nuclearly armed, but not even at war with anyone - you give proof of the LIE so many here spout daily about "how its the Muslims who want to kill all of us and take our lands."

Where are the Muslim posts on this board preaching the hate and advocating the killing and wanton slaughter that so many Holier-than-thou Jews and Christians here spout daily? Nowhere to be seen.

You know who it is who really wants to do the killing Ice? Who the real problems is? Guys like you, who come in all faiths, from all places of the world. As Mike has said, and I'm 100% with him on this, I'd lock you and every other hatemonger just like you up in a cage somewhere and let you settle your differences there.

By the way, here's something you probably missed in the Bible so allow me to point it out to you:

Matt. 7:21-23 "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Oooh, VERY bad idea to quote the bible against Iceman. He will answer with a massbombardement of bible quotes in return. They must not make sense, but the sheer number will bring you down :lol:

But like with anyone who starts throwing bible quotes at me I just put up my bat shield and they bounce off.