If my memory serves me well, the International Court of Justice, in the Military and para-military activities in and against Nicaragua case, had the opportunity to stress that the invasion of an indipendent country (that time was from the US), even if justified for "humanitarian reason", is absolutely against the international law.
Same principle apply to the so called "prevention war", i.e. start a war to prevent an attack to your country.

IMO this cannot be classified as preventive war.
Hezbollah has been firing rockets at Israel for quite some time and Israeli soldiers have been kidnapped. This, in my book, is an hostile aggression and one way to face an hostile aggression is through military force. Moreover, if there is proof that foreign states (like Iran and Syria) are supporting Hezbollah in their attack on Israel, this would make them equally responsible of the attacks and, IMO, legitimate targets.

The risk that this spreads is still low, imo, as long as Hizbollah does not come up with a new weaponry that does really serious damage to Israeli cities. The two strikes on Haifa and - what was that other city? - may be a hint in that direction, or not, who knows.

I think what they really are after is to create a situation where they must not risk of needing to negotiate with a terrorist organisation in government. I think Israel currently is not willing to attack Syria in an all-out war, nor does Syria wish to be drawn into a war with Israel - they know their equipment is too obsolete to have a chance against the IDF. Iran does not want to attract any further hostile attraction, so thta it can complete it'S nuclear program untouched, and in silence. Currently I think it is most likely that sooner or later this hot issue cools down, and the soldiers (which are no longer the real cause) will return. secret diplomacy is currently on way, Israel has contacted both Iran and Syria via Germany.

If the situation remains hot while Hizbollah demonstrates the ability to strike Israeli city with missiles of this new kind like Haifa and that second city, it is possible that Israel will occupy more or less of Lebanon and tries to annihilate it (the Hezbollah, not Lebanon - there is not much left anyway). If that can be successful must be doubted.

But for the most it all is about avoiding negotations with a Hamas-led government. Olmert also seems to have left a prime directive of Israel, which in the past was to accept prisoner exchanges on the ratio of 1 : several hundreds to get back some of it's people. This directive seems to have been given up, or at least put on ice.

No, there most probably will not be a great-scale international war in the ME, currently. Probability for that is less than 5:95, I think.

Israeli planes succeeded in hitting a Iranian made ZelZal missile launcher in Beirut yesterday, which, after being hit, flew off the launcher and crashed to the ground. This was initially falsly reported as being a downed Israeli plane.
Haifa has had plenty more than 2 strikes. Numerous other cities, towns and villages have been hit, including but not limited to Kiryat Shmona, Nahariya, Tzefat (Safed), Meron, Carmiel, Akko etc.

I was listening to the radio today when the air raid sirens went off live in both Haifa and Tzefat. The results. Media pictures show that the missiles are filled with metal ball bearings, to maximize human fatalities. This is similar to homicide bomber vests.
No. Israel has repeated stated what is need to cease hostilities:

1. Our kidnapped soldiers freed unharmed.
2. The removal of any military or terrorist threat from Lebanon.

If they want to have animals and barbarians in their government, so be it, as long as it's their internal problem.
This is 100% false. Simple test: return the soldiers and watch the calming effect.
Suggested reading: Being Hassan Nasrallah.
Now we're back to Gaza. As if anyone else in the PA weren't terrorists!
It's about time!
Agreed. :yep:

I wrote: "Secret diplomacy is currently on way, Israel has contacted both Iran and Syria via Germany."I wonder if that really is a compliment for Germany. :hmm:

AL,

there were reports here that Haifa was struck by a missile that was no Kassam or anything like they usually throw at you, but a more sophisticated, precise missile from Iranian production. That is what I meant with two major strikes at Haifa and S..... .

What politicians say their motivation is (our soldiers back) and what it really is about (not needing to confernece with Hamas) are two different things. They often are not in congruence. I stick to my assessement.

Hamas is no line-army, but much a guerilla-sewtup. Iraq has shown how successful one can be in fighting such an organisation. History is filled with example where regular armies failed in fighting insurgents, partisas, guerillas - or such factions with a terrorist background. You can shoot Lebanon into pieces. Hamas will still be there. What has changed is that they will hide behind smaller stones. As long as you do not strip Lebanon off all rresidents and population, and then dromb a 1000-pounder onto anything left that moves, you will not wi against Hamas. If there is a lesson to be learned from the constant fighting between Israel and the Palestinians, then this.

This alone doesn't say anything special about Germany.

Our timing is badly messed up :smug: I added replies to my previous post.

Haifa and Safed (Tzefat). That was last week or on Saturday. Apparently a Syrian made Fajr missile. Flip through these for a list of missiles.
You're mixing up 2 front, Gaza and Lebanon. (Jet planes flying overhead now). Hamas is running the PA. Hizballah is running Lebanon - into the ground.

Israel's main focus is still the return of its 3 soldiers.
We would have much less of a problem if we fought a war with no holds barred.
Hizballah.
I agree. That's the only way to do it. Israel is not doing that. We gave Hizballah a whole day's warning in advance to pack out of their southern Beirut HQ before we leveled it. We are dumb! :damn: Dumb! :damn: Dumb! :damn:

Ouch! :doh:
You should be addressing my country's politicians and military. As for me, you are preaching to the converted. ;)

hey uber mom... just keep your head down, and those kids safe...

--Mike

All's well south of Afula, thanks, at least so far.

We were just up north vacationing a week and a half ago. Never would have expected all this to happen.

Been very busy doing volunteer work for an organization I work for that assists victims of terror. We are overswamped. :dead:

And as usual you feel it necessary to preface your reply to me with unwarranted insults and barbed comments. :roll:

You've done a lovely job of painting a very one-sided view of events there Avon.

Let me see if I can encapsulate the current events in a more balanced nutshell (curtesy of the BBC):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5179434.stm

All quotes are taken from that article:



Background: Hezbollah was founded in Lebanon in 1982 with the purpose to fight the IDF that at that time, and for 22 years in total, occupied Lebanon. They are considered a legitimate political party in Lebanon, which is a democratic country, and are supported, at least politically if not militarily and finacially (this is disputed) by both Iran and Syria. Of Lebanon's Parliment, the civilian wing of Hezbollah holds 14 out of 128 seats and is responsible for several development and civil service functions - but it does not control the government of Lebanon (half of Lebanon's Parlimentary seats are in fact held by Christians).

Lebanon itself, though still recovering from decades of war and occupation, has been recovering and its probably one of the few democracies in the ME and among the most free (as far as freedom goes in that part of the world). Anyway, this is background.

Summary of July 15th: Lebanese militants launch rockets at an Israel town and outposts; guerillas kidnap two IDF soldiers; ie: a border skirmish conducted by militants without the authorization of the Lebanese government. Israel responds by declaring it an "act" of war and invades Lebanon.

Quote:

July 13:

How does bombing the Lebanese airport get back Israel's kidnapped soldiers, and is the overwhelming use of Israeli military power as used in the bombing and invasion of the war torn fledging democracy that is Lebanon a proportional response to the actions of a handful of Lebanese guerillas?

Quote:

July 14:

No stirring of the cauldron that is the Middle East to be seen here, nope. And despite the wishes of the UNSC - the US, UK, France, Germany, and Russia - it is only Israel's right to use the full force of its military to kill Lebanese civilians and destroy the country's infrastructure, and to hell with what the rest of the world thinks.

Quote:

July 15:

For all the ordinance dropped in Isrrael's "massive bombing campaign" they've finally recovered one of their missing soldiers - or rather his body. Yep, this brilliant campaign is yielding the desired results of freeing their kidnapped troops alright.

Quote:

July 16:

Seven dead Canadians, killed by an Israeli bombing raid in a country that was not at war with Israel or with anyone else. By Avon's and Israel's standard of conduct Canada, along with the full might of its NATO allies should reciprocate the favour, shouldn't it Avon? Maybe over there anyway. Civilized countries do not behave that way with their democratic neighbours. If they did, then when the allegations that the 19 9/11 hijackers had come into the US through Canada had been reported, the U.S. would have bombed Canada the next day. However in civilized countries things do not work that way; Canada took in the stranded planes on 9/11, worked within NORAD to help secure US airspace, and allied with the US in the War on Terror which we are fighting in Afghanistan.

Israel has to be the bully though and show it has the bigger dick. Screw trying to work peacefully with Lebanon toward a solution to the crisis, screw inserting covert special forces on a search and rescue mission, and screw restraint and proportionality. After all, nothing puts a stop to terrorism better than destroying one of the most progressive and democratic countries in the region and terrorizing and killing its inhabitants through the full might of the IDF. Yep, that'll teach them not to mess with Israel, since the prior war and 22 year occupation hasn't taught every single Lebanese citizen that you don't mess with Israel.

You will reap tomorrow what you sow today.

No. It was warranted. :yep:

Border skirmishes and kidnapping another country's soldiers are an act of war.

All that quoting for nothing! :roll:

Does it get more exciting than this? Let's see.......................

Quote:

Quote: July 13:

Oooh, the poor warn-torn fledgling democracy - controlled by Syria and Iran. Oooooooh I'm gonna cry! Boo hoo! :oops:

Who said anything about proportional, the stupidest leftist word on the Internet at the moment. Oh, was that a barb? Sorry.

I understand that aiports are sometimes used by military forces. But that's just lil' ol' me doing some fancy thinking there.

Moving right along...............

Quote:

Quote: July 14:

If the shoe fits. And look at all the hypocrites. US? Russia? We don't come near their massive and non-specific attacks when they deem them necesary (Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya)

As for France, they can go to hell. :rock:

Don't tell us how to take care of ourselves. You've caused enough damage already.

Quote:

Quote: July 15:

You've got the wrong soldier. But why trouble yourself with facts and accuracy.

Quote:

Quote: July 16:

When you invent the magic weapon that can identify innocent Canadians, call us. We'll be happy to use it. Till then, these are the tragedies which war brings, a war started by Lebanon. Please address our neighbors to the north.
Civilized democratic countries don't have parties in Parliament calling for the annihilation of their neighboring country, provided with sophisticated weaponry from rogue regimes including Iran, Syria and North Korea and jump into other countries to kill soldier, and civilians and kidnap them for ransom, too.

Thank G-d normal people do not want to live in your lunatic world.
Is Al Qaeda an accepted party of Canada's government, given support, sanctuary and weapons by Canada? Just let us know.
Go Canada! :up:
Indeed we will. We reaped yesterday what was sown in Israel's retreat from S. Lebanon 6 years ago. Thanks for the lesson! :know:

(What a waste of pixels!)

Watch Brigitte who currently says thank you, Israel.
Suggested reading: Axis of Hypocrisy



http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/9...spoonsxsf9.gif

Must be going. If there's any more BBC blah-blah, it'll have to wait till tomorrow.

It wasn´t. What kind of language you use outside of this forum is none of our business, but here at Subsim.com there are certain rules. Though I´m 100% sure that you already know the forum rules I strongly suggest that you read them again, especially this part:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/faq....ules3_faq_item

We had actually decimated the Vietcong after the Tet Offensive, and some VC general said exactly this much back in the early 90's during an interview (why, yes, he managed to stay alive under communism). It was the old media who ran with the story (that the "war" was "unwinnable") and patted themselves on the back for it. It's like the guy who manages to get your project de-funded and it gives him some sense of power.

As for displacing the population, I agree with your strategy. We displaced the populations in Germany, and that's what helped our ground troops. You bomb the hell out of the cities, and force everyone into the countryside; and then you shut down communications between large masses. They'll use carrier pigeons and lasers if you hunt EMF (electromotive force; any kind of radio, including radar), Hunting laser is a bit tough, but it can be done and it's still limited to line-of-sight, because if they try to bank off a cloud or a balloon, a Predator drone will jump out of a bowl of rice and bust a cap in them.