Trained to kill the enemy. Not to kill indiscriminately. Not to execute unarmed women and children. This was the modus operandi of the Serbian Militias during the Yugoslavian conflict. Recall that was justly denounced as genocide and that the UN intervened by sending in professional militaries to put a stop to it.

Tricky one as you need all the facts and not to base an answer on what the news tells you, but on saying that no solider should break the rules they must follow.

No problem you say? What a load of crap! :down:

Why do you attempt to equate behavior that is both unacceptable and severely punished when it occurs in the US Military with mass murder deliberately committed on orders of the enemy leadership?

Your irrational hatred of the present administration has made you blind to the difference between truth and fantasy and you seem quite willing to distort anything and everything in your zeal to make them look bad. It has also given you a case of selective memory when it comes to what was accepted as common knowledge by both sides of the aisle before the removal of Saddam from power.

If you want to know why the Democrats (who do the same thing on a national level) continue to loose elections, there's your reason. The American people would rather have a bunch of greedy businessmen in power than hand it to a group who are willing to cheer on our enemies in order to hurt their political opponents.

Yes, trained to kill the enemy, whoever that may be at this time (to me that's a very subjective term in itself), but trained to 'kill' none the less, which is why using the military as a police force is much harder to reconcile with what could be described as more 'civillian' activities, ie. policing the streets as opposed to maintaining a combat presence against a clearly defined adversary.
Besides, I was not making a case for accepting what may or may not have happened, merely stating what I thought might be a contributing factor in the events preceeding this case, other than the wider implications dictated by policy when compared to the behaviour of boots on the ground.
One of the main differences (perceived, real or otherwise) between the brits and the americans in this respect is our 30 years or so of experience in northern ireland. It is a view held by many here that the americans can be a bit gung-ho when it comes to more domestic military operations, tending to err on the side of overkill, or so it would sometimes appear.

"Irrational hatred" of the present administration eh? Now there's a neat twist. Funny how citing a few inconvenient facts in a rebuttal to someone's suggestion that the US commit war crimes by lining up and shooting civilians in the Town Square means that I have an "irrational hatred" of the present administration.

If you're going to accuse me of being irrational and dishonest, perhaps you could at least point out - specifically - where in my post that I'm being irrational and dishonest. In the meantime, allow me to back up my assertions with the inconvenient facts as reported by mainstream news sources:

On the fact that Iraq did not possess stockpiles of WMD at the time of the US invasion: http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/06/iraq.wmd.report/

"WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Saddam Hussein did not possess stockpiles of illicit weapons at the time of the U.S. invasion in March 2003 and had not begun any program to produce them, a CIA report concludes."

On the lack of any connection between Iraq and 9/11: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5223932

"WASHINGTON - The commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks reported Wednesday that Osama bin Laden met with a top Iraqi official in 1994 but found “no credible evidence” of a link between Iraq and al-Qaida in attacks against the United States."


On the widespread and systemic abuse committed at Abu Ghraib: http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040510fa_fact

"General Karpinski, who had wanted to be a soldier since she was five, is a business consultant in civilian life, and was enthusiastic about her new job. In an interview last December with the St. Petersburg Times, she said that, for many of the Iraqi inmates at Abu Ghraib, “living conditions now are better in prison than at home. At one point we were concerned that they wouldn’t want to leave.”


A month later, General Karpinski was formally admonished and quietly suspended, and a major investigation into the Army’s prison system, authorized by Lieutenant General Ricardo S. Sanchez, the senior commander in Iraq, was under way. A fifty-three-page report, obtained by The New Yorker, written by Major General Antonio M. Taguba and not meant for public release, was completed in late February. Its conclusions about the institutional failures of the Army prison system were devastating. Specifically, Taguba found that between October and December of 2003 there were numerous instances of “sadistic, blatant, and wanton criminal abuses” at Abu Ghraib. This systematic and illegal abuse of detainees, Taguba reported, was perpetrated by soldiers of the 372nd Military Police Company, and also by members of the American intelligence community."

On the alleged war crimes committed by the US mlitary in Haditha and subsequent coverup: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...198892,00.html

"Sparked by a TIME report published in March, a U.S. military investigation is probing the killing of as many as 24 Iraqi civilians by a group of Marines in the town of Haditha last November. Several Marines may face criminal charges, including murder. And new revelations suggest that their superiors may have helped in a cover-up."

On GWB's assertion that Saddam Hussein attempted to kill his daddy: http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLI...bush.war.talk/

"And, in discussing the threat posed by Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, Bush said: "After all, this is the guy who tried to kill my dad.""

A related story, and note I didn't write it so don't shoot the messenger (no pun intended): http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L0147659.htm

C'mon now. You can backtrack all you want but to imply that the US military feels that abu grahib (and any other conduct in violation of the UCMJ) is "no problem" shows plainly your eagerness to toss as much mud as possible at the current administration even at the expense of the truth.

No August, it shows what I think of the mentality of the post I was quoting that advocated lining civilians up in the Town Square and shooting them in retaliation for convoy attacks. Sure I had done it in a very snide way, but advocating the killing of innocents (whether Iraqi, American, Australian, or whatever) tends to bring out my cynicism.

If that is so then why do you attack the military and the administration when it's really a person here whose opinion you disagree with?

You do understand the difference don't you?

Sure I do, and my post wasn't intended as an attack on the US Military or the administration. It was merely meant to highlight the disconnent I see between the many who rationalize the war in Iraq as liberation from tyranny and brutality while silmultaneously excusing (and even encouraging) acts of tyranny and brutality.

I brought up Abu Ghraib not because the incidents are related, but because I'd encountered this same disconnect during that scandal.

World War II. Germans bomb British cities, We bomb theirs- we bombed theirs better. They attack our unarmed ships without warning we attack theirs. The Japanese decide to fight to the death we oblige and use every weapon we have against them. Stick to a strategy that works.

Some of the Ex-Military people in my family and circle of friends who served in the shadow of the Vietnam War say we need to bring back Napalm and Buzz Bombs. My friends and family were the lowly grunts and seamen, they know what happens to the bottom of the chain of command when you invade someplace. If they were running the war in Iraq it would have been over in 25 minutes. They want to preserve our democracy not spread it. The fact that if you oppose the US you and everyone you know will die and we will not stop until your side unconditionally surrenders is a fairly strong deterrent.

No.

I was going to leave it that, but the system told me I have to use at least five characters.

So I'll repeat.

:nope:

Say what?

I'm starting to have issues with this newfangled board.

Massacre songs
 

This song says it all...and so does the next :):

To the tune of 'Wake the town and tell the people'
Strafe the Town and Kill the People

Strafe the town and kill the people
Let's declare a massacre.
Lay napalm in the square,
So you'll know that Jake was there

Drop the candy in the courtyard,
Let the kiddies gather 'round.
Crank your twenty-millimeter,
Gun the little bastards down.

Come 'round early Sunday morning,
Catch the village unaware.
Drop a bunch of cluster bomblets,
Get 'em while they kneel in prayer. and, to the tune of 'Men of Harlech':

The Atrocity Song

Burn the town and kill the people
Throw a baby from a steeple
rob and steal and what we take will
Aid our victory.

We will mutilate the dying
Scalp the wounded, skin the crying
Burn their barns and while they're frying
We'll sit down to tea.

From the highest roof top (stomp stomp)
You shall hear a pin drop (stomp stomp)
We came down, wiped out the town
Made off with all the livestock and the corn crop (stomp stomp)

Rob and kill and give no quarter
Piss into the drinking water
Kill the fathers rape the daughters
Rangers All Are We!

:roll:
After reading this thread since yesterday, i thought i might need some hipwaders. Unforutnaly i coudlnt find some. Instead, i find some of this. I got first dibs, anyone else want some?

[IMG]http://home.tiscali.be/joke1/Neju4/bull****.jpg[/IMG]