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I can not speak about leaders in other countries but here in the UK Tony Blair has done nothing to stop these Muslims, who are out to cause problems. All this backing down to Muslims will only make the situation worse, not better as are stupid Prime Minister thinks.

Re: A New Dark Age Is Dawning

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Originally Posted by Abraham

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Originally Posted by CB..

... we must be incredibly stupid to be even thinking about all this--make the religion illegal and kick them out--before they do exactly the same thing to democracy and us--

LOL never thought i'd hear my-self say that -- :roll: :dead: :nope:

And you should not.
Declare a religion illegal? How? By giving up the basic Western freedoms?
And then what? Arrest them? Put them in jail for their beliefs?

It's their acts that derail society.

Indeed. I fully support freedom of speech for radical muslims, and I would like them to voice their opinion everywhere - preferably where lots of non-muslims can hear it too. Perhaps we should have translations of radical Arab TV news here, with commentary. Just to raise awareness.

So, British Muslims love the western convienience, comfort, lifestyle and affluence. If they could get everyone to grow beards and cover their wives heads and faces, things would be perfect.

I suggest we ask the moderate Muslims to sort these few bad Muslims out in their own ranks. But as we all know they will not.

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Originally Posted by STEED

I suggest we ask the moderate Muslims to sort these few bad Muslims out in their own ranks. But as we all know they will not.

and that is the key to understanding this situation.. :yep:

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Originally Posted by CB..

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Originally Posted by STEED

I suggest we ask the moderate Muslims to sort these few bad Muslims out in their own ranks. But as we all know they will not.

and that is the key to understanding this situation.. :yep:

Exactly. The one sporeads Islam by violence, the other by his lacking resistance to that violence. I call that a cooperation. In the end, the life of their Muslim brothers is of higher value for them than that of infidels. Islam never was strong in the compassion-department.

Edited for extreme thinking.

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Originally Posted by bradclark1

Edited for extreme thinking.

Extreme thinking is welcome in my PM box.

Re: A New Dark Age Is Dawning

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Originally Posted by Skybird

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Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

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Originally Posted by Abraham

For much of the influence of this fundamentalism Europeand themselves are to blame. A majority of Europeans have no convictions, no beliefs anymore, no sense of cultural heritage and find it a show of progress to insult or belittle people that hold Christian or traditional values.
Then all of the sudden they are facing a growing group of people with strong religious and cultural values, who find a moral vacuum and are happy to fill it... What has European society to offer to them, or to resist them with, as far as values are concerned?

True. And as an American, I have put an end to the criticism of my country's (by and large) overt christian furvor, as such cultural sentiment, although extreemly annoying, may well be the US's saving grace after all.

I admit that in recent weeks and months I started to give some - reluctant :) - credit to that argument. That does not mean I like bush any more than before. I feel like the Romulans in DS9 who unwillingly had to join the alliance against the dominion. :)

With regard to Abraham, I know what he means, but find the formulation misleading, a bit. That's as if one would say it was the Polish's mistake that Hitler attacked them. But like with the Nazis back then, the source of today's dangerous situation is the evil philosophy of that old beduin's criminal mind, not the targetted victim's. It is not the infidel's mistake that they oppose his violent ambitions back then, and today. Our mistake is that we make it too easy for his followers to bring their forces into position. But we did not trigger the aggressiveness of Islam, not did we design it. We had nothing to do with it's creation. And that's why we also have no obligation to accept responsebility for Islam's appearance at all.

@ Skybird:
You would have been more accurate if you had compared my statement with blaming Britain for being (partly) to blame for the war with Nazi Germany. I could live with that comparison. Britain accepted in MÃ¼nich '38 a policy of appeasement after all...
:D