I've never heard Muslims claim that. Got a link?

No links just Old Testement. I know both the Jews and Arabs claim Abraham as their father. So as I said my take on it since Ishmael was first born his desendants believe the land belongs to them. But this is clearly contrary to God's will, the land was promised to a son born to Abraham by Sarah not Hagar.

That's the one thing that got me thinking the other day (not long after the 'Islam world domination' thread got locked.) Why is it that Christians and members of faiths other than Islam aren't so fired up about everything?
I mean, take for example, this whole cartoon debacle, now if someone had personified the Christian God, or indeed such films as 'The Life of Brian' or comedians as Dave Allen. Now, I know there was a small debate on Newsnight about Life of Brian (which the Monty Python team enjoyed immensely so I hear) but aside from that, that was it. There were no riots, no guys walking around dressed up as suicide bombers, and no-one tried to set fire to John Cleese's home.
Now imagine if it was 'The Life of Sahid'? I'm willing to bet the entire Monty Python team would have to be under armed guard for the rest of their lives and several parts of London would probably be on fire.
So, why are there no radical Christians, at least not in Europe.
Is it because of all the advancements that society has made throughout the last two centuries, because if you were to go back to the 1600s, then chances are Michael Palin and John Cleese would be smouldering on the stake, and in some ways Christianity back then resembled Muslims now. You had radical groups, religious fallouts (levellers, diggers, quakers), and if you were to go back even further, the Knights Templar.
All committing acts of blood in the name of their god.
Then, I think the change came after the second world war, when freedom of speech was encouraged and people began to live their lives how they wanted to, as opposed to how their god wanted them to. This radical change has yet to happen in the Middle East, in a way, most of them are living in the 1400s but with the weapons and technology of the modern age. It's like giving a Knights Templar an M-16.
Maybe, in a hundred years or so, the people of Islam will not be so stringent on their use of the Koran....but in the age of weapons that kill hundreds in one go...will it be too late?

It was actually me, that posted the link, but im honored that you mixed me with AL. :smug:

No I'm not suggesting you/we watch anything you don't want to, certainly not for any kind of 'shock' or 'thrill'. :nope:
But if you want to know the truth of the world you have to be prepared to see things that will sicken and disgust you, or else you might as well burry your head in the sand and go la la la la la la la.
But I do think there is a certain value in knowing what the enemy within is capable of in order to dispell a certain naivete,* an innocence that were all just nice people at heart. I believe that there are some things to which the mind is just not capable of believing on its own, you just have to see to believe that such things are possible to be done by one person to another.
If such visions of brutality leave a marked impression, so much the better, perhaps it might make our ivory towers seem not quite so high, nor quite so immaculate.

I forget exactly how the saiying goes (somebody here had it as a signature for ages) something about being able to see all the worst and best of mankind and to rise above it with the knowlege of both...?


* I'm not suggesting you're naive, by the way.

Sorry for mixing that up!

Or that old motto of mine: strong and noble is the one whose eye can bear everything, but whose heart still feels everything!?

Actually not old at all. Philippe Noiret, playing an old musketeer in "D'Artagnan's daughter" (alias Sophie Marceau) said so in a French adventue movie from the early 90s, at least in the german version of it.

Oh Sophie... :oops:

yup that's the one. ;)

-google image search to see who you meant..... ooh lordy lordy! Looks like a cold shower is headding jumpy's way lmao.

And after we watched all this vile corruption the evil in us will have to think up something even more vile and perverted to watch :nope: :nope: :nope:

:yep: :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep:

Second-cutiest girl I have ever seen, end of the 80s, when she was young. Unfortunately no pics from her of that era. but I found this:

http://images.porn613.com/9000/www_p..._marceau29.jpg

http://www.51wall.com/euroidol/Sophi...Marceau_06.jpg

http://oseb79.free.fr/images/Stars/s...rceau%2003.jpg

S I G H . . .

The separation of State (politics) and Church (religion) was the result of the Renaissance, then the Reformation and finally the Enlightment.
This means that the State has nothing to say about religion and the Church can't order the policy of a state. This separation is a Godsend in disguise for both State and Church and as such under constant attack by totalitarian regimes and religions.
Islam (which means "Submission") has never develloped the concept of an independent state, with divisions of power, checks & balances and human rights to defend the right of the individual against the almighty state. The result in Muslim countries is corruption on a scale that can hardly be imagined in the West, nepotism and dictarorship or totalitarian regimes. Islam itself was considered almighty and (some) Muslim states are seen as not much more than concessions to a Western political superior system.
That's also why the opposition in Muslim states tends to turn back to the 'real', fundamental Islam when they are fed up with fake elections or corrupt dictators - often supported out of political necessety by the West, sometimes out of fear for those same fundamentalists!

I did ponder whether it went further back than WW2, and cheers for pointing that one out.
:up:


On a lighter note....wasn't Sophie in 'The World is not enough'? :D

Yes. Also: Braveheart (the English princess). Anna Karenina (probably her best performance so far). She is more know in Europe than in America, I think. Started at the age of 12, with La Boum 1 and 2, which were teenager movie hits in France and Germany when i was 12, 13 years old and she still was looking like a poodle. then three or four movies i like her best in, easy entertainement but with that certain French charm and mood of the mid- and late 80s (Die Studentin, Fanfan & Alexandre, a. o.).

That's what I thought, she is definately a looker, Bond should have chosen her over that nuclear technician...ok, she was working for the bad guy...but still....Sophie....