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-   -   BREAKING NEWS FOR IL2 FANS. (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88950)

August 02-01-06 08:25 AM
I should define what i mean by Dynamic campaign.

It's NOT that my actions or the actions of my squadron could (or should) change the course of the war, but rather the map should always be filled with some activity either on the ground or in the air.

In IL2 or any of it's expansions, other than the 4-16 planes generated for the mission, the map is completely empty. You can fly for hours over completely deserted enemy territory and the front doesn't exist. You can even land at enemy airbases with impunity.

The largest tank battle in the world becomes a half dozen vehicles clustered around a bridge. That aint realistic in my opinion.

joea 02-01-06 11:10 AM
Well a well designed static campaign can do that....as can DCG (I mean Lowengrin's) within limits...never tried landing at an empty enemy base. I suppose the problem is the game engine as too many vehicles would grind the game to a halt. Still you can add a lot more ground traffic to it with DCG and even adjust it to your machine.

Sorry I am a fanboy of 3rd party stuff, especially freeware like this or some of the stuff for SH3.

Again should have benn in by default.

August 02-01-06 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joea
Well a well designed static campaign can do that....as can DCG (I mean Lowengrin's) within limits...never tried landing at an empty enemy base. I suppose the problem is the game engine as too many vehicles would grind the game to a halt. Still you can add a lot more ground traffic to it with DCG and even adjust it to your machine.

Sorry I am a fanboy of 3rd party stuff, especially freeware like this or some of the stuff for SH3.

Again should have benn in by default.
Unfortunately the replayability of a static campaign is very poor. No matter how many planes/ships/vehicles you put on the map they will always be in the same location doing the same thing. Play it once and you'll know where everything is. I hate that.

Red Baron on the other hand would generate a random mission with random waypoints for every AI squadron on the map every time you clicked the fly button. Therefore you never knew what you'd run into and you could replay the same campaign mission over and over again with a different result and situation every time.

As for having too many game units for the computer to handle, I have to wonder why that is. RB, a game designed for Pentium I'sn was able to get, on average, 100-200 planes flying simultaniously on a map as well as numerous AA, arty, train, balloon and even large infantry assaults across no mans land (RBII).

kiwi_2005 02-01-06 12:08 PM
IL2 loved it but got shot down more than often. I became very addictive to Microsoft Combat Flight simulator 3. Dont know why cos everyone keeps telling me IL2 is the only ww2 filght sim your need. In the end i sold MCFS3 online as it practically took over my life!

August 02-01-06 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi_2005
IL2 loved it but got shot down more than often. I became very addictive to Microsoft Combat Flight simulator 3. Dont know why cos everyone keeps telling me IL2 is the only ww2 filght sim your need. In the end i sold MCFS3 online as it practically took over my life!
Did you play MSCFS online or single player?

Egan 02-01-06 12:44 PM
With this patch and the 3 (yes, three!) pay-ware add-ons plus some truly beutiful looking maps (Norway, Burma and Slovakia,) coming there is a lot of life in this sim yet.

Whether it will be enough to tide me over to BoB and its rumoured Battle of France add-on i don't know but a flyable Tempest and Mozzie will certainly help.

Other posters are right though - the campaigns suck.IMO with the Il2 series the single player game has alwsys felt like a bit of an after thought which, if your are not overly interested in online stuff like me, has always been a bit irritating.

I hope that there will be huge improvements for BoB.

joea 02-01-06 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by August

Unfortunately the replayability of a static campaign is very poor. No matter how many planes/ships/vehicles you put on the map they will always be in the same location doing the same thing. Play it once and you'll know where everything is. I hate that.

Red Baron on the other hand would generate a random mission with random waypoints for every AI squadron on the map every time you clicked the fly button. Therefore you never knew what you'd run into and you could replay the same campaign mission over and over again with a different result and situation every time.

As for having too many game units for the computer to handle, I have to wonder why that is. RB, a game designed for Pentium I'sn was able to get, on average, 100-200 planes flying simultaniously on a map as well as numerous AA, arty, train, balloon and even large infantry assaults across no mans land (RBII).
Yes I agree with you about the static but I also mentioned DCG by Lowengrin (man people only read parts of posts) which does a fari bit of what Red Baron could do. I have not gotten bored with DCG as with the default Dgen generator. It is not a static campaign generator....those are 3rd part controbutions I just play in between time. Never get bored either as there are a lot and between work, study, other sims and a social life I get a good balance I think. :up:

As for the huge number of units, yes I wonder if RB (never had it) had a kind of "buble" like the old BoB is supposed to have had? :hmm:

SUBMAN1 02-01-06 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joea
Quote:
Originally Posted by SUBMAN1
I must admit that IL2 never held my interest for too long. You go up, you fight a fight, and then the sky is dead after that! No extra aircraft to come get you, nothing.

The lack of a truely dynamic campaign clearly shows itself in this sim. I didn't buy Pacific Fighters because of this, though I do have all the IL2 add ons.

-S
Try this for a better dynamic campaign.

http://www.lowengrin.com./news.php

Excellent freeware replacement for the ingame dynamic campaign generator.
Took a look at the page - what enhancements does it give you? Is it truely a dynamic campaign? For example, will aircraft come up to get you if you manage to wipe out what is already in the sky?

-S

SUBMAN1 02-01-06 01:27 PM
To date, I still think a modded European Air War is a better sim than IL2. I had much more fun in EAW than I ever did in IL2, even though IL2 looks better. Of course, if you put it up against a modded EAW, IL2 didn't look 'that much' better, just marginally better due to enhanced effects as done by modern 3D cards.

-S

kiwi_2005 02-01-06 02:29 PM
Quote:
Did you play MSCFS online or single player?
I played the single player to death. I went online once and once was enough, i totally got OWNED!. I thought i was good when playing single player against the AI but its a whole new ball game playing online - They're the bloody elite.

SUBMAN1 02-01-06 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi_2005
Quote:
Did you play MSCFS online or single player?
I played the single player to death. I went online once and once was enough, i totally got OWNED!. I thought i was good when playing single player against the AI but its a whole new ball game playing online - They're the bloody elite.
They all own Cougars which is why. They never have to touch the keyboard while pummelling you into the ground.

-S

August 02-01-06 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi_2005
Quote:
Did you play MSCFS online or single player?
I played the single player to death. I went online once and once was enough, i totally got OWNED!. I thought i was good when playing single player against the AI but its a whole new ball game playing online - They're the bloody elite.
One of the problems with that games online mode was that people could adjust the attributes of their AC. It lead to things like Zeros flying at 800mph firing bowling ball sized bullets, etc.

No wonder you got owned...

joea 02-02-06 04:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SUBMAN1
Quote:
Originally Posted by joea
Quote:
Originally Posted by SUBMAN1
I must admit that IL2 never held my interest for too long. You go up, you fight a fight, and then the sky is dead after that! No extra aircraft to come get you, nothing.

The lack of a truely dynamic campaign clearly shows itself in this sim. I didn't buy Pacific Fighters because of this, though I do have all the IL2 add ons.

-S
Try this for a better dynamic campaign.

http://www.lowengrin.com./news.php

Excellent freeware replacement for the ingame dynamic campaign generator.
Took a look at the page - what enhancements does it give you? Is it truely a dynamic campaign? For example, will aircraft come up to get you if you manage to wipe out what is already in the sky?

-S
Each side gets replacement aircraft, you can vary how many in the parameters. Have you tried it?

joea 02-02-06 04:29 AM
Look here: http://www.lowengrin.com./content.php?article.12

Quote:
Based on the Dynamic Campaign Generator for CFS2, this program generates dynamic campaigns for IL-2 "Sturmovik", "Forgotten Battles", and "Pacific Fighters" by Maddox Games. Currently there are dynamic campaigns available for most maps in all three of the IL-2 series games and the "Aces Over Europe" add-on. A number of these campaigns span multiple maps and some (on the Eastern Front) span the entire war.

This program can also generate single mission as well as missions for the on-line "Dogfight" and "Coop" modes (there are two "on-line" friendly campaigns available for use). Over time, the front lines will shift, airfields may be captured and recaptured and objects appear and disappear. Squadrons will transfer closer to the front as friendly ground forces advance or bug-out should the enemy break-through. Armor, truck columns, and trains will also move from city to city during missions and ships from harbor to harbor, starting the next mission at the city or harbor moved to in the previous mission. Build ups of guns and armor will also appear at the "front" and captured locations will have new defences generated.

IL-2 DCG will also track plane losses, pilot deaths, and the replacement of both, awards and promotions, as well as the destruction and replacements of moving vehicle and tank columns, trains, and ships, and static ground defenses. All in all, DCG offers IL-2 players a dynamic world in which to fly.

IL-2 DCG can also fully replace the stock dynamic campaigns ("DGen"). If IL2DCG.exe is used to replace DGen.exe, selections from the DGen campaign selection screen will over-ride selection made in DCG when in single player career mode.

IL-2 DCG also works with the current IL2FB Dedicated Server and FBDaemon2.

Although IL-2 DCG does all the above and more, it remains a work in progress. Bug reporting, comments and suggestions are welcomed.

CCIP 02-02-06 04:30 AM
One thing I learned, also, is that there's some awesome scripted campaigns that have been made for IL-2 by fans. Sure they're canned, but at least they have some of that good feel and creativity in them :)

I highly suggest that those tired of the "dynamic" campaigns give some of those a try :up:


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