You know, it's just not even tempting :nope: , what with RUb, IUb, SH3 Commander and tons of other great mods available for free. :up:[/quote]

I agree personally, but many people would prefer to spend a few bucks, click install and play.

I found a way to have two separate SH3s on my better 64Bit PC. I was running the beta Seawolves Mediterranean on my smaller one but it added so much action and ships it ran slower. So, I put it on my 64 bit but no way was I going to upset my personally crafted version.
I have however, "borrowed" the ships I prefer and put them into my version.
I am giving free advise to them and feel that is OK.

Oh, and you were right about TC and radar AC. I ran some test after you said that (and I wrongly disputed it) Non radar planes will stop 1024 but radar planes can be avoided at 1024. But, I also tested 512 and 256 and there was no difference in my game. Now I spend my time diving from AC in 1943 sometimes 6-8 times in a day!!! Without the radar detection improvement mod there would be no chance so that is a big help!

Wulfmann

Hum...sounds like they might have used sergbuto's AI U-Boat mod without permission. :hmm:

One can also check whether Type VII and Type II subs have water reflections from conning towers or any of new DDs have multiple skins.

I asked directly about this and quoted this and the other Serg post by email directly to X-1.

Here is what (my interpretation) the reply says.

UBI owns the rights to these files. X-1 does not, I do not, Serg does not Berry does not etc!
Ubi has not enforced its copyright allowing people to modify the files and share them.
But, they still own the rights! You do not!!!

Ubi has authorized one group to modify their copyrighted files for an authorized add-on to SH3. X-1; and no one else. Are you still with me?

That said, X-1 is not using Serg’s files but is using the same hex editing techniques to make many new ships.
Are you now saying when someone makes a mod the method they used to modify a UBI owned file is now owned by the modder??? That UBI does not have the right to authorize and add on???

WE all can mod and add mods and share them freely. What would happen if UBI got pissed at all this “I modded it and its mine and the way I did it is only mine too� attitude and took legal action to shut down any site that offers mods to SH3?

X-1 states they have done their own editing. I have personally requested they alter things that were, IMO inaccurate. He would sometimes resend them in hours. So when did Serg jump in and do that and it got ripped in the process??
Please.
Serg has been a great benefit to our community and added some neat things that I have in my version and I am grateful to all the modders for their personal contributions to making SH3 much better than it was from UBI.
Most of us here desire a personalized version to our taste and people like Serg have made that possible.
However, all these files still belong to UBI, like it or not (Has anyone copyrighted their mod, bet UBI will have something to say if you do!)
They have given X-1 permission to modify them for a payware expansion package. They have not given anyone but X-1 permission to do so.
Our little group is a small minority of those that have purchased SH3. Many would like a new expansion, a career in the Black Sea or Salamis in Greece or increased Mediterranean activity with Italian and British cruiser task forces slugging it out.
The fact this is not what you and I prefer does not mean SH3 as a whole does not benefit from more people wanting to buy SH3 because of this extra new add on or the many that do not want to mod shouldn’t expand their enjoyment.
You do not have to buy it but insisting others should not because a legally authorized expansion contains mods altered in the same fashion as those done by unauthorized people.
Serg only asked to be informed. He did not claim they used his mods and inferring that is, IMO, wrong.
I think anyone that has had anything stolen should state it right now. Don’t be a pansy, say so!!
If it is true you have nothing to fear, right?
If you make false and liable accusations, well you on your high horse should be ready to answer for them.
I am historic advisor and beta tester and am not part of X-1, ergo I get no financial benefit, nada.
If you have a real accusation, I would like to hear it.
If you only want to insinuate and vaguely accuse without facts I will call you out and demand you back up your claims just like I took this right to X-1 and asked if they were doing the editing themselves. They say they are, Give me facts to proof otherwise!

Wulfmann

Well Legaly there is a fine line in modding and ownership, Now as i understand it, modding existing game files does not = ownership of said files or changes. But adding totaly new stuff does (like making a brand new ship with its own new skin, model etc). The creator at the very least does own the skin and model (though perhaps not the rest).


How ever at the very least it is rather impolite to grab mods other people spent alot of time working on free of charge with out even contacting them, and then turing around and trying to sell them. X1 did indeed at one point do this, and the backlash from the community is as you see still felt. So people are still very suspicious of X1.

NS, I agree there will always be a bad feeling towards X-1 here and X-1 deserves it for their initial actions. But, they released only approved mods with their new ones and Seawolves Mediterranean is all new stuff. And, now people are saying they don't have the right to make their own stuff by using the same methods of modding and that is rediculous.

There are no new ships in SH3. All are modified versions of UBI owned files. Any completely new file can be considered original but any modified file based on an original still belongs to UBI.

Greg Law (Seacondor) has sent Serg some CFS3 ships which are being converted for use in SH3. Greg has stated X-1 can add these if they want so here we have a delema. They belong to Greg Law of Ground Crew Designs and he is giving Serg the right to convert them to SH3 but X-1 can use them and does that mean Serg can say Greg's ships cannot be used because he modded them? You tell me. It is the fine line.
They will be offered for free but X-1 can use the same ships in their mod. (They won't be converted in time so it is really not an issue but still interesting)

I don't care if people do not want to buy Seawolves. I wouldn't myself as I like modding, that is the fun to me. It just annoys me when they act like the only people legally allowed to make mods are doing something wrong even when there is no evidence to suggest it!
Guilty without proof nor is any required to make baseless statements.
If what X-1 did was wrong then, why do those that accuse them falsely act like that is OK. Sounds like the same horse in a different color..

Wulfmann

Is it being formulated like this now? I thought I was helping Greg to bring his models to SH3 community or basically doing him a favor.

There should not be any issue here. If X-1 says they have all the necessary skills and figured out all the hex-editing tricks, they should be able to easily make the conversion of Greg's models and make it in time for their release as it seems they have the man power and do the job within hours as you said above.

Serg, the miscommunication is my fault.
Because X-1 was modding new ships in the manner you were doing (but doing many of them) I thought you were doing them for X-1.
Greg was merely letting you add (convert) his stuff to SH3 simply to let the types of ships expand without any motive even though he is so busy he can not play SH3.
Because I thought you were making X-1 ships I suggested to X-1 they should buy them from Greg and Greg told me X-1 could use them for free.
I now realize you are not involved with making new models for X-1 and they have pretty much wrapped up their ships and are testing other areas.
My fault, sorry for any mix up but purely my doing.
Wulfmann

Really to be honest people who steal unique work are scum ,period.

And it doesnt matter the slightest bit what they think about their act in that regard.

Further,the modding community dont need the permission from anybody to to mod the files they got on their hd,especially not if they dont intend to sell their modification of the source files..
IF a software company would intend to prevent modding they should seal their code so that it is factual unaccessable.

Otherwise its mine,on my HD i can do whatever i want with it as long it is on my machine and i just share the mod info with buddys.

You know we dont need to pack modfiles like configs etc, a textfile how to do it would be fully sufficent.
Try to stop me from telling someone how to do it.

Further you know Ubisoft Is an enemy of the modding community,because in their limited horizon they see only assumed potential losses.

Quite ironic in a situation where Modders spent their valuable time to remove partially bugs, which never should have been in the final product in the first place?
Imagine Mercedes would sell you after 1 year the brake fix kit...,i know in regard to software there is no life at stake,yet the example already shows the Unprofessional attitude that found a prosperous ground in the IT industrie.
And then people like you Wolve come arround and defend some dubious figures,who basically should prove to us, that they didnt steal the knowhow to some modds.
But as this is isnt provable i would ignore those config changes,they are lost, as a modder you should be aware that you do it for nada..,dont expect anything.
Internal ,we of course know that they are thieves, and that that alone excludes them from civilized mankind.
And I bet they are aware of that fact and just have postponed selfexaminations in the mirror till that day they face death ,eventually, but only maybe.
Usualy character flaws like that are a steady company through the whole life.

Anyways if it comes to custom artwork i would sue them for every single skin/mesh they stole,if they would try to make money of it.
I slowley think the open source community might take longer to make their sim versions of platforms but in the end we dont need to reley on products made by people who only got $ signs in their socialy retarded minds.
I would like to point out though, that not all companys act like that, there are exeptions like Relic© for example.
Yet its a fact that a few foul apples can spoil the whole recept.

All who might feel hit by what i said i can offer hope,there are already people working on stuff like MS`s palladium approach, and intentions by american telecom companys to transfor the web kill off the civil internet splitting it up in brass silver and premium networks,and let the user pay for each and everything he is doing with his super Duper paladium machine on which not even the code for the progs will be stored , because the programs will be lend and downloaded on demand via super HD pipes.
Nice eh..? ITs the uber control freaks vs the sane world,you all will be happy.

The philosophical implications one can derive from the already visible approaches, which indicate the corrosponding mindsets if you analyze what they mean,point from my pov towards a state where we the users, should carefully watch IT developments and in Doubt act massivley against such intentions.

And sabotageing X1 is the least we can do.

Just keep in mind that they are only the visible peeks of even bigger attempts to ripp us off,and in the end change the liberal free face of the internet.

What you and a few (I am sure well meaning) short sighted people refuse to consider is Seawolves will reach 10 to 100 times as many people as our little community effort, no matter how much we enjoy it.
What they do actually helps us more than we help ourselves.
By expanding the user base they can help the barely minimum sales fiqures to make UBI want to continue doing sub sims.
It is in our interest that they succeed but don't let me open that little narrow way of thinking we are the center of the universe and the man is out to live off our wonderous efforts.
We are doing some nice editing of a few files. We are not the reason for SH3's success. We do what we enjoy and that is enough for me.
Perhaps you have forgotten how M$ does exactly what you refer to when they sell for hundreds of dollars unfinished programs, nearly every product they make is like that.

Wulfmann

I'm all for an add on to SH3, I'm sure many of you remember SH2 and there were a bunch of guys who set about an add on for that.
It was called "Pacific Aces," I was involved on that team though I played a minor part, but the end result was we got an add on to SH2, but the bottom line was it was done for FREE.
Why can't X-1 do the same?

They are a company and want/need to make money.

Why doesn't UBI do it for free???

Companies have employees and like to feed their children and I am guessing you do not refuse your paycheck from your job.

X-1 is making an add on and the only people that will buy it are the ones that want to. How is that different than any other game company

Wulfmann

I didn't realise it was a company, I thought it was a bunch of scallys trying to make a fast buck. sorry I misunderstood.

Who cares if they can reach a larger user base. What if the authors of the mods simply don't want to reach a larger user base, at least not when someone is getting profits off their work? If your explanation is logical then I guess every person selling pirated games out there is helping the industry, too. Those guys in China certainly have a huge user base.

No one cares if the authors of those unfinished programs let M$ use their work. However, when M$ doesn't have the permission, even the best lawyers in the world won't save their asses. Remember MS-DOS 6.0 and the little disk compression scam?