SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

SUBSIM Radio Room Forums (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/index.php)
-   General Topics (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=175)
-   -   "A Critical History of Islam" - 09-Nov-2005 (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=86335)

Hitman 11-10-05 11:17 AM

Quote:

Skybird, why work so hard when someone else has already done it for you?
That is exactly the reason why people throw themselves in the arms of any religion. Why take the effort of thinking about God, the universe, the reason of our existance, and all the things that surround us, when someone has already thought them for us?

And the next step is to see yourself happily giving away money to a telepreacher, crusading to holy land, burning apparent witches, or even pressing the trigger to blow your body along with hundreds of innocents, just because the very same person who already thought a reply to the big questions for you, has already a plan for what you must do with your life. :damn:

The main difference between us and the animals is our ability to THINK, to use our mind and take our own decissions....why should we not use it?

I must express my respect and admiration for Skybird on this, he might be wrong or right, but he followed his own way, a harder way, and did not simply take as granted what others say :up:

The Avon Lady 11-10-05 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman
Quote:

Skybird, why work so hard when someone else has already done it for you?
That is exactly the reason why people throw themselves in the arms of any religion. Why take the effort of thinking about God, the universe, the reason of our existance, and all the things that surround us, when someone has already thought them for us?

Ummmm, pardon me?

Books don't make you think? :hmm:
Quote:

And the next step is to see yourself happily giving away money to a telepreacher, crusading to holy land, burning apparent witches, or even pressing the trigger to blow your body along with hundreds of innocents, just because the very same person who already thought a reply to the big questions for you, has already a plan for what you must do with your life. :damn:
Are we on a magical mystery tour here or what? :doh:
Quote:

The main difference between us and the animals is our ability to THINK, to use our mind and take our own decissions....why should we not use it?
I never said otherwise.

Do you always take words in such a raw literal form? Talk about thinking out of the box! :yep:
Quote:

I must express my respect and admiration for Skybird on this, he might be wrong or right, but he followed his own way, a harder way, and did not simply take as granted what others say :up:
Again, who's arguing? :-?

Hitman 11-10-05 03:12 PM

Quote:

Ummmm, pardon me?

Books don't make you think?
Books give you elements to construct your own thoughts and opinions if you read them critically. But if you use them as a substitute for your own construction of a logical thinking, then they are just a way of indoctrination. Same as the nazis did with "Mein Kampf"...or some radical muslims do with the Quran ;)

Don't take the comment above as a personal attack, I just wanted to highlight the value I recognize in Skybird going his own critical way, and the danger existing in taking anything thought by another for granted (Including the pretended holy books of all religions) :up:

Abraham 11-10-05 03:53 PM

"A Critical History of Islam"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman
Quote:

Ummmm, pardon me?

Books don't make you think?
Books give you elements to construct your own thoughts and opinions if you read them critically. But if you use them as a substitute for your own construction of a logical thinking, then they are just a way of indoctrination. Same as the nazis did with "Mein Kampf"...or some radical muslims do with the Quran ;)

Don't take the comment above as a personal attack, I just wanted to highlight the value I recognize in Skybird going his own critical way, and the danger existing in taking anything thought by another for granted (Including the pretended holy books of all religions) :up:

A good analyzis of the use of books for the critical mind, Hitman! It goes for links too...

Fish 11-13-05 12:51 PM

Quote:

But again, I dare to say no other culture in human history – as we know it today - was so highly developed and in possession of so phantastic possebilities like the modern West. Not always we used these potentials wisely, all our acchievements also threw their shadows, and we already have started to let down plenty of our treasures in philosophical and ethical values and traditions. Our cultural climax lies behind us, not ahead of us. We could need something like a second rennaissance.
Your sure Skybird?
With all what made it happen, churches selling free pass to the hereafter, colonies, serf villains and extreem poverty?

Sixpack 11-14-05 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman
Quote:

Ummmm, pardon me?

Books don't make you think?
Books give you elements to construct your own thoughts and opinions if you read them critically. But if you use them as a substitute for your own construction of a logical thinking, then they are just a way of indoctrination. Same as the nazis did with "Mein Kampf"...or some radical muslims do with the Quran ;)

Don't take the comment above as a personal attack, I just wanted to highlight the value I recognize in Skybird going his own critical way, and the danger existing in taking anything thought by another for granted (Including the pretended holy books of all religions) :up:

@ Hitman: Excellent post once again, and a most refreshing display of self-conscious vision from a responsible person(ality) ! :up:

@ Skybird, my word of advice: Dont waste time in this place. Go public with your analysis ! Politically in your hometown for starters, or find a German (not Austrian / :rotfl: ) politican to do the dirty work for you. And that's dealing with extreme liberals, ignorants, cowards, hypocrites and the 2-tonged serpents among us. Or write a book and reach millions.

Abraham 11-14-05 05:18 AM

"A Critical History of Islam"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sixpack
[@ Skybird, my word of advice: Dont waste time in this place. Go public with your analysis ! Politically in your hometown for starters, or find a German (not Austrian / :rotfl: ) politican to do the dirty work for you. And that's dealing with extreme liberals, ignorants, cowards, hypocrites and the 2-tonged serpents among us. Or write a book and reach millions.

I second that.
Try to publish your analyzis one way or another. I'd buy it for sure...

Skybird 11-14-05 04:59 PM

Sixpack, Abraham,

In my late schoolyears, say age 16 or so, I was eager to "do" something, so I joined the youth organisation of the Socialdemocrats. I left quickly in maximum disgust. In my last school semester I was with the conservative's youth organization, for they made good parties. the experiment lasted for not much longer than three months. I hate politicians and I am sure evolution already has put them on the list of to-be-deleted species. My spiritual and martial arts teacher at that time shook his head from the very beginning :lol:

I must not publish that kind of stuff, for it already has been published by brave persons. The one guy I quoted repeatedly, Peter Raddatz, currently is body-guarded by the German BKA and lives in the hidden, for it has been called for his murder by Muslims who did not like his views finding an audience. Most what I wrote is just arranged and summarized by me, but the original argument I cannot claim any credit for. I declare them "my" arguments in so far only that I did not blindly copy someone else's thoughts, but came to the same conclusions by my own thoughts and travel experiences. I do not read a book and then simply copy the author's opinion - doing so would be dump. I am not hesitent, however, to use his voice, when I have seen that I HAVE come to that same conclusion.

It's just that many people do not read such things, it is not popular. So I thought a summary of the basics might be helpful for those who never thought about the very basis. History of Islam in the following centuries after where i stopped is twisted and marked by cilvil wars and fights for power, splitting of the community and appearance of new factions and traditions, but all this is more about politics, in the end, not so much does it add any important changes to the basic dogma from the beginning. I tend to think that following chapters are not really needed, for that reason, to understand the principles of Islam's attitude towards the West. I think the important stuff I already have outlined.

I currently read various material about empires, the rules they form up by, the inherent action logic of their situation, and how and why they brake apart, and the future of warfare which very much reminds me of a fallback to the wars we have seen before the national states in Europe emerged (and thus that future is no so much something new, but a return of the past). I red about this in past years, to, but not as systematical as currently, and I re-read a lot of my old books again, focussing on Herfried Münkler (brilliant guy), and van Crefeld (another smart one). All this with one eye on the US, of course, but a historian's eye, not a politcal critic's eye. I also bought myself a PC-installed and much bigger electronic dictionary :) Who knows. Maybe another "summarizing essay" will emerge from all this in the future :lol:

Somehow both themes, "Islam", and "the future of wars and empires", are shaping our not so far away fate on this globe.

joea 11-14-05 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish
Quote:

But again, I dare to say no other culture in human history – as we know it today - was so highly developed and in possession of so phantastic possebilities like the modern West. Not always we used these potentials wisely, all our acchievements also threw their shadows, and we already have started to let down plenty of our treasures in philosophical and ethical values and traditions. Our cultural climax lies behind us, not ahead of us. We could need something like a second rennaissance.
Your sure Skybird?
With all what made it happen, churches selling free pass to the hereafter, colonies, serf villains and extreem poverty?

Doesn't have to be exactly the same as the first.

Abraham 11-14-05 07:58 PM

"A Critical History of Islam"
 
@ Skybird:
It's just that I hate PDA files and find it hard to somehow keep the copies together.
Gimme a book anytime...
:know:

Sixpack 11-15-05 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird
I must not publish that kind of stuff, for it already has been published by brave persons. The one guy I quoted repeatedly, Peter Raddatz, currently is body-guarded by the German BKA and lives in the hidden, for it has been called for his murder by Muslims who did not like his views finding an audience.

You could consider publishing under your nick 'Skybird'. You know we can keep a secret here ! :lol:

You could at least send it anonimously to a newpaper, a magazine, whatever. Just dont let it go to waste. More voices make a better choir.

And Abraham: Buy a stapler, for God's sake ! :roll:


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:13 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2025 Subsim®
"Subsim" is a registered trademark, all rights reserved.