Well except for the gps like accuracy of the U-boat position on the map I really don't think it is realistic to ban use of the map. I use the "assisted plotting" mod and I think it is more realistic than either "god's eye" or no map at all. I also use the nomograph mod. The other rules sound good though.

I use the free camera mode ONLY to look at my beautiful boat on patrol..Never in combat though, or to use in any kind of advantage.

I have to disagree, there are still plenty of things that the game does not cover such as ending active service after a realistic amount of time and then there are other things, like trying to do it as closely as possible to the ways the real crews had to - so that meens things like not fighting it out with aircraft, limiting deck-gun use, not going free sailing or attcking escorts....and a whole bunch of other things.

Cworth, it is funny that you should bring this up. CCIP, Beery and myself were just talking about rulesets to further add to the hardcore roleplaying aspect. It is something I think would be a lot of fun.

Yep, there was a sextant in the observation periscope.

And I've read on this forum that some people do use it to measure the elevation of Polaris star to know their latitude, and use true noon against clock noon to compute their longitude. Apparently, the astronomical model of SH3 is good enough for that!

That's right. RUb with SH3 Commander automatically sets players up with ultra-realistic settings, including a retirement feature that automatically retires your commander based on the probability of retirement of the real top aces.

You should try SH3 Commander. It automatically does this for you.

and as BdU says "Be more agressive!"

aw comon. i mean, why would they put an engine capable of warp 5 in ur sub if u can't use it? :rotfl:

I don't understand this 'don't use time acceleration' idea at all. I mean no one in the sub, or in the game, experiences time faster than 1x. Only the player does. Subs don't go faster, torpedoes don't go any faster, nothing changes. Why not use time acceleration???

cause its the closest thing to really being on a patrol out at sea in a u-boat.

The old AOD handbook had these

Phase 1:

# No restarts from Autosave or previous saved games for any reason other than computer malfunction, power outage, or the when the game itself "freezes" or crashes.
# If sunk or captured this event must be reported to HQ, and a new career may be started at any point in the war.
# Escorts may be freely attacked if the commander chooses to do so.
# Deck gun may be used on any target.
# Commanders have discretion to plot course outside patrol area, but should first make every attempt arrive in their area of operation.
# Ships should only be attacked in "War Zones" appropriate to the date of operations. (ie: no ships along American Coast until after "Operation Drumbeat" begins.)

Phase 2:

# No restarts from Autosave or previous saved games for any reason other than computer malfunction, power outage, or the when the game itself "freezes" or crashes.
# If sunk or captured this event must be reported to HQ, and a new career may be started as close to the point in the war at which the last career ended as possible. This will more accurately reflect the difficulties faced by new commanders as the war progressed and will also demonstrate the constraints the Uboat arm was under in terms of number of boats available at the outbreak of the war. Of course, upon reaching 1945, you may then again begin a career in 1939.
# Escorts may not be attacked except by torpedo.
# Deck gun may be used only on merchant shipping, not escorts or warships, in accordance with Section V, The Submarine as a Gunnery Vessel.
# Commanders have discretion to plot course outside patrol area only if they are attempting to engage an enemy Konvoi as reported by BdU or another Uboot or new orders are requested.
# All orders from BdU must be followed to the best of each commander's ability.

Phase 3:

# No restarts from Autosave or previous saved games for any reason other than computer malfunction, power outage, or the when the game itself "freezes" or crashes.
# If sunk or captured this event must be reported to HQ, and a new career may be started as close to the point in the war at which the last career ended as possible. Of course, upon reaching 1945, you may again begin a career in 1939.
# All standing historical orders of the most recent update of this manual must be follwed to the best of each commander's ability. This includes orders regarding the Submarine Protocols, attacks on escorts, neutral ships, etc. Failure to adhere to these rules at this level of realism may result in sanctions taken against offending commanders.
# The strictures of this on line handbook are to be considered standard operating proceedures, and should be followed to the best of the commander's ability.
# Ship's nationalities and cargoes are to be checked against the random results tables. This will approximate the real efforts made to identify ships and checks against ship regirstries. (These charts have been created to reference area and dates as indicated.)
# Deck gun may be used only on merchant shipping 5000 tons or under, or merchant ships already damaged by torpedo, except as allowed by Section V, The Submarine as a Gunnery Vessel.
# Upon first sight of an aircraft the alarm must be given and a crash dive effected. Manning of AA guns must only done when no other alternative remains, such as a surprise due to high time compression or a submarine is unable to submerge.
# Upon arrival in Patrol Area a radio status report must be made.
# A radio status report must be made at least once a week.
# Commanders have no discretion to plot course outside patrol area unless damage to U-boot can not be effected at sea, shadowing a konvoi which has penetrated patrol area, or attempting to engage an enemy Konvoi (as reported by BdU or another Uboot) which is within which is within 24 hours hard steaming.
# Commanders are not permitted to request new orders.
# All orders from BdU should be followed to the letter, unless impossible due to mechanical failure, damage, or in possession of insufficient fuel to follow the order and still return to port.

Phase 4:

# When an enemy ship is within visual range (red circle on the tactical chart) do not use time compression beyond 512x.
# When engaging the enemy ship within visual range, use only periscope or binoculars to guide your boat, not the tactical chart. The tactical chart may only be used while submerged and periscope down, as this is the best means of monitoring sound contacts.
# When surfacing the uboat, in order to simulate the short period of blindness in a real boat when surfacing, players must remain in F1 (control room) screen until informed by crewmen that the boat is now on the surface and running on diesels. After this point you may go to bridge view (F4), and then to binoculars (F3) or tactical screen (F5) if there are no ships or planes in view. (as per the handbook Section 1B, 29.)
# No restarts from Autosave or previous saved games for any reason other than in the event of computer malfunction, power outage, or the when the game itself "freezes" or crashes. In these events, commanders are required to roll their 12 sided die. A roll of 1 or 2 indicates that the boat has suffered from a catastrophic equipment failure, fatal crew error, or to have hit a mine. The boat has been sunk with loss of all hands, and the game can not be restarted.
# If sunk or captured this event must be reported to HQ, and a new career may be started as close to the point in the war at which the last career ended as possible. Of course, upon reaching 1945, you may again begin a career in 1939.
# All the strictures laid out in this on-line handbook must be followed to the best of the commander's ability.
# All standing historical orders of the most recent update of this manual must be follwed to the best of each commander's ability. This includes orders regarding the Submarine Protocols, attacks on escorts, neutral ships, etc. Violations of standing orders at this level will result in sanctions against the offending officer(s).
# Ship's nationalities and cargoes are to be checked against the random results tables. This will approximate the real efforts made to identify ships and checks against ship regirstries. (These charts have been created to reference area and dates as indicated.)
# Deck gun may be used only on merchant shipping 4000 tons and under, or merchant ships already damaged by torpedo, except as allowed by Section V, The Submarine as a Gunnery Vessel.
# Upon first sight of an aircraft the alarm must be given and a crash dive effected. Manning of AA guns must only done when no other alternative remains, such as a surprise due to high time compression or a submarine is unable to submerge.
# Upon arrival in Patrol Area a radio status report must be made.
# A radio status report must be made at least every other day, unless standing orders specifically include radio silence.
# Upon sight of a konvoi a contact report must be given as soon as is possible, with contact report beacon signals for other boats radioed each time the konvoi changes course.
# While penetrating konvoi, do not fire deck gun until certain you have been spotted by escorts.
# When fired upon by an escort, radio a status report, contact report, and battle results before crash dive.
# Commanders have no discretion to plot course outside patrol area unless damage to U-boot can not be effected at sea, shadowing a konvoi which has penetrated patrol area, or attempting to engage an enemy konvoi (as reported by BdU or another Uboot) which is within which is within 24 hours hard steaming.
# Commanders are not permitted to request new orders.
# All orders from BdU must be followed to the letter, unless impossible due to mechanical failure, damage, or in possession of insufficient fuel to follow the order and still return to port.
# When loading a torpedo from an external storage area to the inside of the boat, the boat may not submerge until the process is completed.
# Torpedo transfers from one end of the ship to the other (aft compartment to forward, for example) may not be attmepted by crews of less than Vetern quality, and once attmepted the uboat must remain on the surface until the transfer is complete.
# When effecting repairs on external damage the uboat must remain in a stationary position for the duration of the repair. Exceptions to this are damages which occur in the conning tower, such as periscope and AA guns.
# Regardless of remaining fuel and torpedoes, a submarine must report to a friendly port when their provisions are exhausted. Any Type IIs at sea for 45 days must return to port for reprovisioning. Type VII's at sea for 55 days must return home for reprovisioning. Type IXs must return after 65 days, and Type XXI's must return after 90 days. If a German merchant ship is indicated by the random results table for ship recognition, you may attempt reprovisioning by approaching the ship and running a parallel course. Such reprovisioning extends your operational period as regards food for another 45 days. If a ship determined to be German fires upon you, the ship is realized to be a Q ship and a submarine trap.
# Do not accept the Type XXI until mid 1944.

But for some of us, that's not the point. You simply can't be 'close' to being at sea in a U-boat while you're looking at a screen in your home office. The two things are worlds apart. I'm closer to life in a U-boat when I'm shovelling snow in the winter time than when I'm playing this game. The point I'm making is that time acceleration just doesn't affect the simulation. To pretend that it does is a little ridiculous because the whole simulation is built to keep time at 1x for all the parts of the simulation that actually simulate. Demanding (even in jest) that we stay at 1x when we're playing the game is like demanding that we wear U-boat leather clothes, eat only mouldy food, or splash water on our faces when we're in a storm. It doesn't make sense because our participation has nothing to do with the realism of the sim. It doesn't matter what we do while the sim is running, it cannot affect the realism of it because it's not inside the sim. We are not participants in the sim, we are only observers and controllers of it.

Then, play at 1x TC, but DO NOT do anything else than playing and sleeping right by your computer. If you play at 1x TC and read books, look at the TV, etc. you are spoiling the immersion!

:hmm:

If you play SHIII at 1x TC it becomes a REALLY GOOD BOREDOM simulation. At least the Uboat crew had other things to keep them busy (normal duties just to keep the sub running).

I like Beery's idea of splashing water in your face if in a storm. I also thought about throwing myself around the room while under DC attack...kinda like the "red shirts" in the old original Star Trek TV series when they were under attack. :rotfl:

Irishred: Great list, thanks! I'd forgotten all that stuff, I haven't seen it in years.

I think the SH3 Commander is going in the right direction. If it is ever possible to allow us to start in any chosen month (or even a specific date,) then that would go far to advancing a decent rule set. The choices in the stock game are ridiculously limited. The fact that SH3C already allows careers to end after a realistic time is a great step forward (thanks for reminding me, Beery, I had totally fortgotten that. :up: )

My interests in it are more 'Role Playing' than 'Ironman' so I am more interested in where and when I can patrol, whether there are any 'standing orders' I must adhere to. Another big one for me would be crew management - more specifically men transferring to and from my boat. Eg: About to leave on a patrol having just lost your XO and several of your most expeirenced men, or tranferring to a new boat and getting a totally green crew...

Also rules on what you can and can.t spend renown on, and when.

Perhaps 'controls' could even be on things like using the Watch officer and so on.....

There is a lot of stuff that could be done.