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-   -   where does consciousness begin ? (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=252611)

Catfish 05-04-22 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 2807026)
More and more animals are being given the status of being "sentient" beings, latest example: squids.. [...]

A bit OT in the context of self consciousness, but this has been thought of before.
I remember this little octopus living in an aquarium with neighbouring tanks sideways and above, inhabited by all kinds of sea life.
After some time animals from other tanks began to vanish.. the owner put up a camera and the records clearly showed how the small 'kraken' lifted the heavy glas, climbed into the next tank, even changed vertical shelves, sometimes to play, sometimes to eat .. in the morning he always was in 'his' tank, behaving like "go on, nothing to see here".
He (not it i'd say) clearly remembered me and other guests, and behaved differently. I have also met some underwater, in the mediterranean, but you have to be careful: even smaller ones have an unbelievable strength.

" The Soul of an Octopus: A Surprising Exploration into the Wonder of Consciousness" by Sy Montgomery is a very good book about those earth-developed eight-armed aliens.

Now there is a new study about how some squid species became what they are. Their genome was almost similar to humans (only other 'switches' activated in the sequence), but after a while it began to divert drastically.

"How octopuses and squid have broken away from the previously known pattern of evolution"
https://www.myscience.at/en/news/202...on-2022-univie

They are clearly intelligent, but in a (understandably) very different way. And they do not live very long, otherwise mankind would probably find an underwater civilisation..
Sorry for OT, they are a bit of a hobby of mine :03:

Skybird 05-04-22 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar (Post 2807079)
Agree, Just because she didn’t react doesn’t mean she hasn’t developed consciousness. sense data can be confirmed by an observer (your niece) without necessarily implying understanding.

Development psychology covers the whole human lifespan, so from childhood to high age: chnages in perosnality,. cogntive capacity and so forth. Psychological research on the very young ones and babies has - since decades - quite established data on the development phases of babies and little kids, both on the sequence and the average time marks at which what happens. I gave a very brief overview, and not a complete one (its almiost 30 years I dealt with that...). That is agreed common academical knowedge today. Since half a century. On babies, its not just theory, but plenty of experimental and observational data, like the Rouge Test I mentioned.

mapuc 05-04-22 02:47 PM

^ I left something out of our discussion my Little sister and I had then.

- Are you sure that she doesn't know what she see in the mirror I asked

-Yes expert who know more about consciousness say they develop this after their 2nd year or so. My sister said to me.

I replied
- As you may know, I remember all the way back to my own birth(I'm not kidding you) And remember what I was thinking when I saw myself in the mirror -Who's that ? I even remember thinking Is that another place/parallel world ?

As I said does this mean that we develop a consciousness earlier than expert says we do. or is thinking not the same as having a consciousness-E.g I saw myself but I did not recognize it was me.

Markus

Skybird 05-04-22 04:25 PM

Your neural wiring or your neurotransmitter homeostasis may be different, Markus, you repeatedly said you are medium Asperger. I dont know this state especially well, but I could imagine that its the case. You tick a bit different for that reason, your volume slider for your "mike" is more to the "up" position, where we others get moderate perception intensity, you already may be close to hurting overload intensity - while other things might be processed faster, different or more comprehensive by you than most of us can or would. If itsd true what you say abotu your earl ychildhood memories, than that is very unsual and not representative for the norm of "normal".



Note I say "different", not "better" or "worse". I cannot compare these two state of kinds, since I know only one: mine.



I can only repeat, development psychology for the young has pretty established models and data on the development phases of babies and young kids. Since long time. I never was interested in youth psychology, but had to run basic courses in it as part of the main curriculum, and found it to be one of the best described and researched fields in psychology.

mapuc 05-04-22 05:11 PM

Thank you Skybird for your comment.

As I wrote is thinking the same as consciousness ?
I even remember when I was baptist and what I was thinking-Grow hair through into the nose-My uncle(my mom told me that when I told her about this memories I had) I remember him saying Shall i hold him while you take place in the car and i saw he had black hair and when I looked up say that he had hair inside his nose and here I remember thinking grow hair through the nose.

Then I didn't knew it was called a nose. I was just amazed that hair grew through down to the nose.

I'm not normal-Having huge difficulty in remember what happened 5 sec ago.

Markus

Platapus 05-05-22 06:13 PM

https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/ima..._mechanics.png


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