Reading stuff like A Turkish F-16 have shot down an Armenian fighter jet is in my opinion a huge escalation of this long lived conflict between these to countries.

That's why I asked what is Turkey up to
They may very well end in a war with Russia

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Erdoghan
- goes after the CHRISTIAN Armenians, a Turkish arch-enemy now (Azerbaijhan is Muslim)

- settles a score regarding parliaments in the West calling the Turkish genocide of Armenians actually a genocide,
- sends a message to the EU, NATO and France over his military engagement over the gas and oil fields near Cycprus
- wants to boost his claim for being seen as the regional leading power,
- wants to intimidate Greece,
- wants Putin to meet him on same eye level,
- wants to rally the masses at home around him while the Turkish currency crash-dives and the economic crisis turns worse,
- wants to show he is still there after Israel made peace deals with two Arab countries and can hope for sign more such deals.


What the EU leaders completely underestimate is that Erdoghan'S Turkey is both willing and capable to engage in a large scale war over Cyprus. Everybody implies he is bludding to get cocnessions. I say: no, he is not bluffing at all.



Turkey must be kicked out of NATO. Already ten years ago at the latest.

That may be a possibility. But for years its known western alliances have been very careful not to publicly condemn Erdogan for support of Azeris and the Armenian genocide. I think dismantling Putin's reign is more important to NATO. Turkey might be able to help with that if it could force Putin into scaling up defenses and sending more troops into a potentially very unpopular war trying to defend the Armenians.

As for the Greece thing I still think its Turkey just sabre rattling. Erdogan wants something next time he goes to the negotiating table. I also think Merkel and Erdogan are working closer together than people think. Brits know this and they bolted from the E.U. France knows this when Macron spoke out against Turkey over Greece. Merkel on the other hand not wanting to disturb her relationship with Recep says little.

Macron needs to watch his back. Ever since Merkel has come to power in Germany other European leaders dont get to see a second term as president. Hell, some didnt even get to finish their first one. Pretty soon its just gonna be her and Erdogan.

Armenian and turkish hostilities have a long history, but it always was about Turkey who wanted to kill all Armenians at a time they did not have an own state to live in. This was internationally condemned as genocide, something Turkey will not admit until today.

If you want to read something about the beginnings and the attempted genocide read "The fourty days of Musa dagh" (Musa Dagh is the mountain Moses allegedly climbed, in the bible).

With Kemal Atatuerk Turkey changed from the muslim attitude to a more secular state after WW1, but all this has been destroyed by Erdoghan. And most Turks love what he does, at least the big-mouth nationalists.

I know a few Turks and they assure me he is not as popular with the Turkish people as he would have everyone believe.

Voting irregularities are common place.

It depends on which Turks you ask, Jim. If you ask those living in Istanbul and the tourist ressorts, the few big cities depending on exchange with the Europeans, you get the answer you have gotten. But leave the urban areas and go into the rural places where the vast majority of Turks live, and you find that the overwhelming majority of them is arch-ultraconservative and ultra orthodox. And here the AKP rules, and in many such places practically unchallenged. The majority of Turks, the clear majority, is pro-AKP, still. They have all been ultra conservative there through the Kemlist decades. Islamic orthodoxy and nationalism just slept. They never were "away". Erdoghan did not reinject them. He only woke them up again.


Turks in Germany tick by the rule of thumb that the younger generation is more Islamic conservative and nationalistic than their parent generation. The Turkish parallel society is said to be deeply split between pro and anti Erdoghan. Many speak not out becasue they fear the long arm of the Turkish secret service. In Austria they are currently debating on the fact that Turkish agencies conduct huge operations inside Austria to hijack and assassinate critics.

^ Yes, I appreciate that and readily admit it is probably close to the truth but I've also been told that prior to elections, lorries packed with washing machines and fridges etc, are often seen visiting villages etc. where the poor are 'gifted' appliances for their support and votes.

I'd presume in NK a vote could probably be bought for a few grains of rice (that's if voting ever actually takes place).

In the news earlier today, they talked about some upcoming meeting among the leaders in EU.

On the program was the plan for a sanction against Belarus.
It's not 100 % agreement...Cyprus has given an ultimatum..
They will only vote for a sanction against Belarus, if the others agree on impose sanction or similar against Turkey.

The problem, as the Danish journalist said, is that Cyprus has a valid case.

The way he said it, made me wonder if
The Turks really care...seems like they drill for gas where it almost suits them.

Edit-Forgot something important.
Beside this, this journalist also, said
EU fear what Turkey may do, if EU should impose sanction against Turkey and Turkey has some good card on their hands...immigrants...millions of them. Leaders in EU fear an invasion.

End edit

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Tureky now shamelessly open fight sin the new Kaukasus war, they have transported thousands of Syrian mercenaries to Armenia and send them to battle there. Villages in Armenia once again get haunted by Osmanic imperiaism. Turkish proxies started to enforce Sharia rule by threat of weapons like the Tlaibvan once did - and will do again - in Afghanistan.


Thank God there is the EU. It raised an impertinently errected pointing finger and told Erdoghan on a recent summit that if he does not behave nice the EU will consider an angry reaction.


Germany prevented - ONCE AGAIN - a more robust reply. Instead, the German EU presidency works for increasing the EU dependecny on Erdoghan'S good will.



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After WWII, the motto in Germany was and still is: "Nie wieder." (Never again). I always was alienated by this, becasue if the germans would want to penance for the sins of their forefather s -. wouldn'T it be more logical to then act by a motto of "never again for the wrong and criminal and inhumane causes?" Shoudn't they want to supüport, aid and help the focres standing for what is right, humane, and free, insatea dof just watching it going down, referring to their choosen mnotto of that they never want to have anythign to do with wars int he world again? This way, they allow the evil repeating itself.


It is unclear whos tarted the recent round nt he conflict for Nagorni-Karabach, but fact is that Nagornia Karabach is a steronghold of Armenian

Christains that are surrounded and unde rpressure by hostile Muslims all around them. That the Armenians with their special experience with the Turks have a problem with just letting these their people down, is absolutely understandable, if one knows historxy a bit.



That th EU just watches while the (neo-) Osmans once again kill the Armenians and try to subjugate them to Islam, is not to be understood or excused at all, under no circumstances.



I hope Russia does not let them down, but I have my doubts. The Russians seem to stay out of it, although they claim to support Armenia (and the US supports Muslim Azerbaijan, which holds plenty of ressources and is friendly to "NATO member" :haha: Turkey.



Why is it that contemporary Europe always sides up with those who fight the Western heritage, and mocks, fights against and criticises those who stand up for the Western cultural heritage...? Its disgusting, and shameful.

Mr Erdogan has also his eyes on Jerusalem, Israel.

One of my friends posted this link on his wall

https://www.timesofisrael.com/jerusa...ogan-declares/

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I think Israel are well enough equipped to stop that happening.

They have indeed.

I couldn't help thinking on some of Skybird's comment on Turkey, Erdogan and the ottoman empire, when I read the link posted in my last post.

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Just going on nuclear capability alone it would be potentially suicidal for any non nuclear capable nation to attack one that had nuclear capability.

Sultan has clearly gave us a tricky puzzle to solve. Armenia is our ally, and culturally symathies of most ethnical russians would be on the armenian side and since most population in Karabah are armenians - on the side of PRK. Even more because it was Azerbaijan side who started the last advance. But Russia is more than only ethnical russians - here are armenians and azerbaijans, tatars etc who may have different feelings. To say more Azerbaijan is a state which we have a friendship treaty with. To say even more - all those our "allies", "brothers" and "friends" including Serbia, Belorussia, Azerbaijan, Armenia ( in past Bulgaria and Ukraine could also have been mentioned in that list) - they all call for help when they are being bullied, but in more well-fed times they talk about "multivector policy", start colour revolutions etc. So since we are all no more members of socialist USSR where everybody were brothers and should help each other ( at least that's what they taught us at school ) - we'll do ourselves a favour if we won't succumb to our heart's impulses and look at the situation cold-minded. De jure battle actions are on the PRK's territory, not on a territory of Armenia - so since Armenia is not directly involved and our base at Gumri is safe - there is no reasons to take Armenia's side in military sense. What us ethnical russians should immediately do - is to stop flying to Turkish resorts and spend there our money for Erdogan. Our authorities could once again close flights there for COVID reasons or whatever.

Its not just the revisionist nationalistic ottoman claim for lost empire and glory, but also Islam's claim that anything and everything it ever hasput its foot upon shall be forever its own, forever and ever, thats why Erdoghan imply the olc claim for the Territorues in Quroe that once were conquered by the Muslim invasions of the past, right down to spain and the centre of France, Vienna anyway. Many in the West make the mistake of wanting to draw Erdoghan just as a powerhungry nationalist and autocrat, so that Islam must not be thought about and can be continued to be glosse dover and painted nicely. They forget, or better they ignore (since they never cared to notice it in the first) that the AKP and the whole movement and cult around Erdoghan started on and was and is focussing on the religious relevance of it all, too. You cannot separate Turkish nationalism from devout religious conservatism.And in Islam, policy and sociology and religion is one and the same anyway, another important detail that Westerners all too often stubbornly refuse to take note of. Our Wetsern constitutions are not prepared fr that, since they differ between all that. This way, Islam claims untouchability for its political agendas by claiming protection of religion. Any Western player accepting this, necessarily strangles himself.