SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

SUBSIM Radio Room Forums (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/index.php)
-   General Topics (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=175)
-   -   Vacation home on Mars? Forget about it! (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=241964)

August 07-31-19 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEED (Post 2620981)
Yea right the stuff of Sci FI. :har::har:


Yeah but just a hundred years ago merely putting a human into orbit was the stuff of Sci-fi so I wouldn't bet against it happening.

Sean C 07-31-19 11:30 PM

Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids
In fact it's cold as hell
And there's no one there to raise them if you did
And all this science I don't understand
It's just my job five days a week
A rocket man, a rocket man

Jimbuna 08-01-19 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August (Post 2620997)
Yeah but just a hundred years ago merely putting a human into orbit was the stuff of Sci-fi so I wouldn't bet against it happening.

Yeah and only sixteen or so years earlier we were still witing on the first aeroplane flight :yep:

STEED 08-01-19 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August (Post 2620997)
Yeah but just a hundred years ago merely putting a human into orbit was the stuff of Sci-fi so I wouldn't bet against it happening.

All I see is a world going mad and there is nothing like space and entertainment to blot out the real world..

Lets say we do go to Mars what will we do? Trash it like we have done to our own planet.

Skybird 08-01-19 08:33 AM

A man or two or a few more WILL go to Mars sooner or later. As a tech demonstration. As a PR stunt to secure funding for space programs. As a show-off o the lead a private company pushing the effort has over its competition. As a verification for technology skills that then get used for something different.

What will not happen any time in the forseeable future is the "colonization" of Mars as an alternative for Earth as man's natural habitat.

Worstening the perspective even more is that fact that one must seriously quesiton whether in those many decades when such a colonization would start at the ealriest, societies and state son earth still are in a shape fit enough to sustain such ambitious operations. I do not take that for granted, not at all. There is the erosion of ressources. The collapse of natural environments. The erosion of state integrity. And an intellectual turn back towards the darkness of the religion-focussed medieval - and not just in the Islamic world. The growing influence of evangelicals in the US is worrying. Last, the decline of education and scientific knowledge in the wide ordinary public, and the decline of school quality.

BTW, there is a very, very small chance that life on Earth originally came from Mars. Some cosmological ancient traditions describe astronomic events that could have resulted in that. If so, we all already would be Martians.

Dowly 08-01-19 09:08 AM

For those interested, here's SpaceX's plan (might need to add a 'couple' of years on each stage).


Quote:

2020 - Second Stage Reuse

So first up, they have chosen to tackle possibly the toughest challenge, i.e. recovery and reuse of their Starship upper stage. This has already begun with Starhopper test flights, which are designed to practise take-off and landing, at Boca Chica Beach Texas. All being well, they should progress to test flights with their orbital Starship prototype, again likely at their development facility in Boca Chica. By early next year, they intend to drive the Starship prototype hard through the atmosphere, reaching ever increasing velocities, to simulate orbital re-entry conditions and prove their new heatshield material. Again, all being well, they should progress to a full stack test launch by year’s end, enabling them to continue re-entry tests from full orbital velocities.


2021 - Orbital Refueling

Another big one: transfer of cryogenic propellant in micro-gravity. Originally, it seemed slightly extravagant of SpaceX to build two Starship prototypes in different locations but it seems that's the fastest way to perform orbital refuelling test flights. First the target Starship will launch to orbit, typically from the Cape, then a second Starship tanker will launch from Boca Chica to rendezvous with the target vehicle. If they relied solely on one launch site it could take months to refurbish the launch site and reusable booster, before being able to perform the follow-up tanker launch. Whereas using two sites, they could potentially launch both test vehicles the same day, trimming months off development time for the orbital refuelling test. In addition, this parallel launch strategy should greatly reduce any propellant boil-off, making it more likely to recover both vehicles, again saving the time needed to fabricate any replacements.


2021 - Surface habitats/In Situ Propellant Production

Hopefully by 2021 SpaceX will have completed their architectural design for pressurized domes, which couldn’t class as easy – but frankly doesn't approach rocket science. Likely too, Boring Company will have produced high speed boring equipment by this time, which SpaceX can adapt for use on Mars. These robot borers will be used to excavate frozen water from the ground, leaving tunnels which can be sealed for atmosphere and used as workshops and service areas. Reportedly SpaceX have been working on ISRU propellant production for some time, so should have it ready by this date - if not sooner. The chemical processes are not groundbreaking (fractional distillation, electrolysis, Sabatier process etc) so this probably constitutes the least challenging overall.


2022 - Moon Landing

Again, having two parallel launch sites and vehicles should be a godsend for performing moon landings. Propellant boil-off should be minimized using parallel launches and there’s no such thing as having too much fuel when thousands of miles from home. Possessing the capability to recover every part of the launch system could potentially reduce the time required to develop moon landings from decades down to a year.

While at the moon, they’ll probably take the opportunity to test ISRU propellant production in one of the large craters found at the lunar poles. These craters act as cold traps and reportedly contain billions of tons of frozen water and carbon dioxide, the raw materials needed by SpaceX for ISRU propellant.


2023 - Mars Landing

In early 2023, two unmanned cargo Starships should descend through the tenuous Mars atmosphere. SpaceX can simulate Mars Entry, Descent and Landing but nothing beats the real thing. Crunch time – or more hopefully, a nice soft landing. Likely these specially built Starships will attempt to land at the same site but up to a month apart. This should allow data from the first attempt (whether successful or not) to be studied and used to improve EDL for the second vehicle.


2024 - Closed Ecosystem

This will be tough. SpaceX basically have to create an autonomous life support system designed to keep crew alive for at least two years. Ideally it should regenerate everything: air, food water, with the minimum power input – typically what you might harvest from the ship’s solar cells. No doubt some components and materials will be consumed but these have to be sufficiently minor that a two year store can easily be transported.


2025 - Human Mars Landing

The apex. All being well with previous stages, this will likely be a rerun of the cargo landings two years prior. Staggered spacecraft should burst through the atmosphere and descend on tails of fire to that historic landing site where humanity first begun to fullfil their destiny as a multiplanetary species.

Mr Quatro 08-01-19 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish (Post 2620993)
My take is that it is a bit early now, but we will land a man on Mars in the next 20 years. Then, like with the moon, there will be a time of stasis, until a real colonization will take place.

There is one place on Mars that is very "low", with higher temperature and denser atmosphere, which would be the logical place for a first settlement.
O2 can be produced from CO2 just like in submarines with scrubbers, and i guess mankind is able to build airtight structures to live in.

In the long run we will have to leave earth, the next "big one" can kill mankind anytime.

O2 on submarines is produced from salt water turned into fresh water and the O2 is taken out of the purified fresh water and then is put through an oxygen exchanger that cleans the air with tons of charcoal in the system. Very complicated process for everyone to get a fresh breath of air.

They say that one of the moons around Saturn may have water or at least liquid to send a robot submarine to check it out. :yep:

August 08-01-19 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 2621085)
The growing influence of evangelicals in the US is worrying.


Your imagination is getting the better of you. There are enough real dark forces in this world without inventing imaginary ones to worry about.

Jeff-Groves 08-01-19 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 2621085)
The growing influence of evangelicals in the US is worrying.

The U.S. is getting pretty good at shutting down Cults so relax.
:D


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:40 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2025 Subsim®
"Subsim" is a registered trademark, all rights reserved.