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- - a 1941 gun duel between a merchant and U-boat (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=207631)

:agree:

Quote:

Shortly after moonset the Commanding Officer increased the U-Boat´s speed and closed the distance to the vessel to about 1.000 meters. Carefully, the vessel darkened its lights while the dawn began. Notwithstanding, the vessel´s silhouette was to be seen well as the distance decreased. Without a moment´s hesitation Jost Metzler ordered "Action station for artillery fire!", and following the preparation required he ordered "Open fire!". Metzler increased "U-69"´s speed another time reducing the distance to the vessel to less than 800 meters.
The artillery fire from "U-69" was precise, and initially there was no defensive action by the vessel. The surprise attack seemed to have worked. Alternately, the 8,8 cm gun fired high explosive and incendiary shells in short sequences. Apparently, the vessel´s radio room had been hit by one of the first salvos, as the U-Boat´s radio operator reported "Ship has not sent any emergency signals!"
Meanwhile one recognized at the U-Boat´s conning tower that the vessel was armed considerably after all. There were guns of greater caliber each at the fore-castle and the stern. Now, the vessel started to open fire as well, but none of its shells hit "U-69". Just the opposite, its artillery fire was so un-precise that the bridge crew at the U-Boat assumed all fire control equipment of the vessel must have been destroyed already hindering any directed gun fire at all. After a short fire break Metzler changed the side of the attack. "U-69" moved behind the vessel´s stern to re-attack it from the other side. Soon the vessel was hit several times below the water line, causing damage to the boiler room.
Immediately, the typical blowoff of steam was to be heard, and a large steam cloud could be seen. In the mean-time, the vessel hardly made any way. The vessel´s guns seemed to have been destroyed or could not be used any longer. As a maneuver of last resort the ship´s master attempted to ram the U-Boat, but did not manage to do so because of the vessel´s small speed. "U-69" had closed to the vessel that much to allow identifying the superstructure of the ship in detail, with almost everything completely destroyed. The vessel was burning across its entire length and was dead in the water. Because of the hits at the waterline the vessel started to sink slowly over its stern. There was no sign of any life among its crew. Metzler ordered to seize fire. The freighter showed a scene of destruction: The entire superstructure demolished and flames everywhere, the masts bended and the funnel riddled. "U-69" left the burning vessel in the morning of the 03rd of July 1941 which now was about to sink definitely. Kapitänleutnant Metzler had to be aware of enemy Naval forces or aircraft rushing to the scene at any moment."
The events of the combat engagement were noted in the U-Boat´s war diary. It was not possible at that time to clearly identify the vessel, but it could be described, including its armament. The freighter was equipped with a minimum of four guns, one each at the bow and the stern, two more nearby the bridge, from where at one time rounds were fired against "U-69". Also, there were some light Bofors AA-guns. "U-69" ´s war diary lists the following expenditure of ammunition:

102 rounds of ammunition 8,8 cm high explosive shells
34 rounds of ammunition 8,8 cm incendiary shells 220 rounds of ammunition MG C/30 (2 cm)
400 rounds of ammunition MG 34. http://www.u-boot-archiv-cuxhaven.de...rt_l_holt.html

Besides a captain, retired Vice-Admiral/convoy Commodore Wodehouse, was also aboard the merchant, an outstanding British rugby star, had also been a gunnery officer at Jutland aboard HMS Revenge. He had not been one to stay retired with a war on! The R.L. Holt vessel had 8 gunnery personnel: 2 Lance bombardiers, 4 gunners- of the 4th Maritime Regiment of Royal Artillery and two DEMS gunners essentially Defense Equipped Merchant Able-bodied seamen. No lack of fighting spirit is evident if still attempting to ram! The element of initial surprise must have been paramount, together with a the considerable and unrelenting hail of fire at under 800 yards from U-69's 136 rounds of 8,8 cm ammo ...which killed all 56 aboard before sinking the vessel. FYI: The U-69 had expended all of its 'eels' prior to engaging the R.L. Holt. on The River Lugar and Empire Ability; sinking both. It was homeward bound prior to its encounter with R.L. Holt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve (Post 2313081)

The problem is that the 4.7"/45 could depress 10 degrees, which means that for it not to hit the U-boat is going to have to be right alongside. Most of the different DAMS guns were similar in elevation.

I think they just got surprised, the same as HMAS Sydney.

Yes, I didn't know that the gun could depress 10°.

However, just saying they were surprised doesn't really explain the matter. 130 rds. of 8.8 cm shells cannot be fired off that quickly. Possibly they knocked out the rear gun first off, then methodically worked over the ship from the rear?

That reminds me of gun duel between U-123 and Culebra. January 1942, Hardegen was out of torpedoes while returning from Paukenschlag mission.

Quote:

As tension built in the control room Hardegen continued to watch intently as the target came on in the bright daylight. “One thousand meters … We’ll surface at six hundred … Use E motors and planes, LI… nine hundred … eight hundred … Stand by to surface! … seven hundred … Periscope down! Surface!”

“Turmluk ist frei,” Schulz sang out. “Boot ist raus!” “Hatch is free. Boat is up!” The gathered deck force clambered noisily up the ladder, the Old Man in the lead. Hardegen took in the scene with his glasses while the gun crews took their positions and the two guns received their first shells from the crew chain. What must emotions be like on that steamer? he wondered. No doubt its seamen shuddered inside to see this huge metal shark suddenly break the surface and bare its teeth. “Permission to fire!” Hardegen called fore and aft through the megaphone. The target was now four hundred meters distant. With a sharp clang the 10.5 breach closed, and a second later the muzzle erupted with the first shot, which cleaned the barrel. It fell well aft of the target. The second shot hit below the bridge, the third below the stack. From von Schroeter’s gun dense brown cordite smoke trailed aft across the conning tower. But now the enemy gun crew was training its weapon in 123′ s direction, and an incoming shell plunged into the water to port of the U-boat sending up a large column. “Take out that gun crew!” Hardegen yelled to the 2-cm machine-gun crew behind him, but they yelled back, “Herr Kaleu, the firing pin is broken!” Now four more incoming shells ricocheted off the water sending some fragments banging against the U-boat’s hull and others whistling past Hardegen’s head on the bridge. One puncture of the pressure hull, Hardegen worried, and 123 would not be able to dive anymore. The enemy gun crew had continued to fire while von Schroeter’s gun was pounding away at the hull beneath them— Hardegen would say later: “It must have been awful for that gun crew to feel our explosions just below them. I have to show my respect to the enemy: They stuck to their battle stations.” 12 But finally the U-boat’s aim and range combined to hit squarely on the target’s gun pivot, destroying the gun and killing the crew. Von Schroeter’s 10.5 crew raised their arms and cheered. A few more shots set the bridge on fire and silenced the machine guns. The freighter blew off steam, slowed, and began settling by the stern. The surviving crewmen went into lifeboats while the wireless operator, among the last to leave, put out repeated SSS signals. On 123 the belowdecks crew one after the other were invited to the bridge to see the dramatic picture of a burning, sinking ship.

Gannon, Michael. Operation Drumbeat: Germany's U-Boat Attacks Along the American Coast in World War II

I imagine Herr Hardigan is still savoring his victory...at the age of 101 and still kickin' He puts the 'hard' in Hardigan ?!!! SS Culebra After taking care of the injured men, Hardegen questioned the first officer of Culebra and after being told that there is water in some of the lifeboats and they only had one holed bucket, he provided them several buckets, provisions for a few days, a knife to open the canned food and the course to the Bermudas. The U-boat then went back to the ship to fire a few more holes into the waterline until she sank by the stern. However, the lifeboats were never found, the master, 38 crew members and six gunners were lost. SS Culebra> http://www.wrecksite.eu/img/wrecks/thumbs/culebra42.jpg http://www.wrecksite.eu/imgBrowser.aspx?31727