The idea that Ephraim and Manasseh are England & America is a belief that stems from British Israelism (also called Anglo-Israelism). This theory started in England in the 17th century and spread to America with English colonists.

In the latter half of the 19th century, a guy named Edward Hine moved to America and began to promote the idea that Americans were the lost tribe of Manasseh, whereas England was the lost tribe of Ephraim.

There were others who have promoted this but the most well known one recently was Herbert W. Armstrong, founder and former Pastor General of the Worldwide Church of God.

The central tenets of British Israelism have been refuted by evidence from modern genetic, linguistic, archaeological and philological research.

As Steve said,

I would have to agree.

Edit. Sorry Tribesman, didn't see your post.

I've never heard of this. However, having done some reading just now, it would seem that Tribesman is correct in that British Israelism does have some ties to the Christian Identity movement.

Yea, Tribesman made the right connection. The Christian Identity movement holds the view that modern Jews are not at all Israelites nor Hebrews, but something else. An excellent excuse for anti Semitism. That dog and pony show still draws a crowd.

As Sgt. Antonio Espera in HBO's series 'Generation Kill' like to say, "White man's gotta rule the world."

Does the Bible say that those tribes would become England and America?

Acutally, the genetic study found a lack of Haplogroups J2 and J1, which are common in Israeli and Jewish ancestery, but a large amount of group R1b, which is a common in Europeans. Sorry, but the science just doesn't support your claims.

Read for yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Israelism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Identity

I'm sorry but biblical prophecy is subject to interpretation. I have read the Bible and I have yet to see the words 'America or England'.

It really doesn't matter. The Christian Identity movement uses the word 'Christian'. Lots of organizations do but it doesn't mean they are Christian. These people are basically white supremacists. To be more exact, anti Semites.

I would have to say that there are many Christians, myself included, who do not believe that Ephraim and Manasseh are England and America. But it is just an opinion. As most interpretations are. If you believe it and wish others to believe it then you have to supply some proof.

I would have to say that it is correct. It is the interpretation of men that is highly suspect. And I think that this is one of those cases.

First let me say that I am not against any of you, but only wish to add to your knowledge and understanding and my slant on the bible.

With that said, I believe in the inspired word of God as written:

1 Corinthians 14:26-28 NKJ
Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. 
Let all things be done for edification.

27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret.

28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.

2 Peter 1:19-20 NKJ



If interpretation of the word of God is of interest to you may I suggest reading:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

http://bible.org/seriespage/interpreting-bible

You have relied on the most anti-creation publisher out there, as far as I know NGS doesn't even believe in Jesus being deity ...

I may be wrong of course that is possible, but they do include a lot of Darwin theories in their pages

Wiki like everything else in life you have to discern and learn

Depends how you use it, like any book you need to also check the sources it is using.
Since you are referencing a book can you tell us which of the hundreds of different versions you are referencing, then can you provide the sources that book is taken from?

Tell that to the church of Jesus Christ(Christian).
They even add(christian) to their name to avoid any possible confusion.

Since the subject in hand is the lost tribes and theories connecting them to the US&UK then they have everything to do with the subject in hand as its part of their version of "christianity".

Connections was it?
You seem to be running from connections, but you should take the time to look as it is interesting.

Not at all. If you're looking for entry level information on a subject, it's a great place to go. Certainly good enough of a source for a message board topic.

That may have been true in the past, but things are changing.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best...ege-classrooms

And it will be removed within minutes.

Ah, now we're hedging our bets here are we?

You're attacking the source, not the argument. That is an ad hominem logical fallacy and a way of changing the subject without actually ever addressing the claim. Weak sauce, man. Weak sauce.

Yep, what mookie said. And I can tell you for a fact that colleges do permit wikipedia use for secondary sources. It is, as mookie also said, certainly good enough for an internet forum. You, Simmy seem to be more interested in discrediting any source or study that contradicts your views. The bottom line is that British Israelism and Christian Identity are linked, and that the science does not match the claims. I am sorry that you are unhappy with that, and you are free to continue to claim otherwise, but it does not render your views any more true.

No.

In other news: Finland is the oldest country in the world and was inhabited by giants before men. This is proven by the large boulders we have littered around the country. The giants liked bowling and targeted trees with them.

Also, in case you weren't aware of it, Finnish is the root language from which all the other languages in the world have developed. How else do you explain that the British word for their capital "London" closely resembles the Finnish word "Lontoo" meaning the same place?

^ LOL, can't argue with that logic. :haha:

The hilarious reality there, Dowly, is that I didn't come up with those arguments myself. Instead they were actual thoughts proposed by the nationalists of the 19th century. The same people who studied the Bible very thoroughly and came to the conclusion that the Finns are direct descendants of Abraham.

I think I don't need to elaborate the point of that post any further.

I wish you would, though. That was fun.

As per your request, Steve, though it wasn't anything deeper than life. The original post to me didn't make much sense and frankly seemed to have an in-built idea that the world revolves around the English speaking world (could have been my imagination as well, but that was the initial impression I went by). So I instead offered an alternative theory of the world revolving around Finland, which didn't make any more sense either.

And as I said, neither of those "arguments" I proposed were my own. They were serious science to people who advocated them in the name of the 19th century Finnish nationalism. Even if I didn't mention it in that post, the Bible was a huge source for these folks as well. After all, they firmly believed (like most people back then in here) that the Bible contained the truth about the early history of the world among other things, and therefore it was only logical to try to find out how the newly formed Finnish people were related to Abraham. And unsurprisingly they managed to "find out" that the answer is: "directly", because it's of course the best answer you can get.

Lots of things can be proven. While that may have not been the original intention of this thread, still the original question to me wasn't much different from asking "are Finns descended from Abraham" or "Is Finnish the original language spoken before the Babel".