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-   -   Asia 'set to eclipse' US by 2030 (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=200512)

August 12-12-12 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 1974434)
And it has America and Europe by its balls. What Westerners often ignore is that having debts makes you vulnerable to blackmailing.


Blackmail? Yeah right.

So what's to prevent the US and Europe from telling the blackmailer to go pound sand? Just remember when you put money into a foreign country you're only a politicians pen stroke from loosing it.

Just ask the oil companies what happened to their investments in Venezuela, Libya, Iran and the many other countries who decided to nationalize their production.

the_tyrant 12-12-12 01:19 PM

@Penguin

You are still missing my point.

What I am saying is, having 80% of 1.3 billion people backing you up makes you powerful.

Hitler might have made some bad decisions, but that does not mean he isn't powerful. Having a nation of supporters backing you up tends to make you extremely powerful.

Also, I tend to disagree with the concept that mindless supporters are all slaves. Slaves can only do basic menial labor, whereas true believers can do more advanced stuff. After all, Nazi Germany did have many brilliant scientists and generals. There are some in the country forced to believe, but much more are true believers.



Quote:

Originally Posted by August (Post 1974466)
Blackmail? Yeah right.

So what's to prevent the US and Europe from telling the blackmailer to go pound sand? Just remember when you put money into a foreign country you're only a politicians pen stroke from loosing it.

Just ask the oil companies what happened to their investments in Venezuela, Libya, Iran and the many other countries who decided to nationalize their production.

Thing is though, by doing so, the US would ruin its credit. Just like how if you declared bankruptcy, you can probably never get a loan again. I'm pretty sure that unless significant amounts of changes can be made, the US can no longer support its government without any borrowing.

Takeda Shingen 12-12-12 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_tyrant (Post 1974550)
Just like how if you declared bankruptcy, you can probably never get a loan again.

That's not true. You can get loans after decaring bankruptcy. They may not be prime, and they won't be offered for a few years after you declare, but you are not blacklisted for life. You can always fix your credit.

Oberon 12-12-12 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August (Post 1974292)
We once had the same national pride and we didn't need an authoritarian government to have it either.

The work ethic between America and China/Japan is not comparable though, in fact I think most Western nations would struggle to understand the mindset of most Japanese, I certainly do. National pride though, yes, there was once a similar mindset, but then people became allowed to question and doubt the state. China and Japan spent many years not being allowed to, in China it's still taboo, although it's a LOT better now than it was even thirty years ago, in Japan I think the government is considered secondary to business, since most of the time the government is either corrupt, out of touch or ineffectual, so loyalty is owed to your boss, not your nation. Even so, there's still a fair bit of nationalistic pride, particularly amongst the youth. Same in South Korea from what I can tell.


And Skybird, what China has is a suicide bomb. Yes, it can do severe damage to Western economies, yes it can drive Japans economy even further down the toilet, but at the cost of destroying its own. China has an economic bomb, but the firestorm that it would unleash would consume it along with its enemies.
China isn't stupid, it wields the threat but it's reluctant to use it until it can put itself into a position where it would survive the backlash. The US would recover, Europe would recover (eventually), Chinas current success is built on this economic boom, if it loses that, it goes backwards, it's like kicking the legs out from underneath a table.

AVGWarhawk 12-12-12 02:00 PM

7 years for bankruptcy. 3 years for short sale on a house. Credit worthiness can be obtained again. It takes work and time.

Penguin 12-13-12 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_tyrant (Post 1974550)
@Penguin

You are still missing my point.

What I am saying is, having 80% of 1.3 billion people backing you up makes you powerful.

Hitler might have made some bad decisions, but that does not mean he isn't powerful. Having a nation of supporters backing you up tends to make you extremely powerful.

Also, I tend to disagree with the concept that mindless supporters are all slaves. Slaves can only do basic menial labor, whereas true believers can do more advanced stuff. After all, Nazi Germany did have many brilliant scientists and generals. There are some in the country forced to believe, but much more are true believers.

Oh I got your point. However your statement, that I quoted said something universally about advantages. Yet you only argue from the government's perspective.
To me a nation consists of the people, not the government, hence my argumentation where the advantages for the population lie.

If the Chinese government is really backed up by 80% of the population, they should have no fear of free elections or the free flow of information and would have no need to imprison people for their opinions.

If you have doubts that Hitler made some bad decisions, as implied through the word "might" it's time to get the good ole history books out, even the most fierce Nazi would claim that Adolf did indeed made mistakes.

Also does is the word "slave" defined through ownership, not by the kind of work they do. Though I agree, that volunteers are certainly more productive. Let's call them programmed work drones instead.

You also don't recognize how many brilliant minds left Germany because of the dictatorship. A non-Nazi 1930s/40s Germany would have had even more brain potential.
Many scientists in the 3rd Reich who stayed, would have also worked under another government. The rocket scientists the USSR and the US imported after WW2 are surely the most prominent examples.


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