And as far as deaths of leaders go, if everything is so open and transparent in the USA, why is there still such a huge number of conspiracy theories around JFK? No Soviet leader's death is surrounded with the amount of mystery, red tape, and sealed files than JFK's. That's not to suggest that I believe in the conspiracy theories, but the history of that one is anything but straightforward, transparent and open.

I didn't say everything here is "open and transparent". Far from it. There is the chance that the Warren Commission lied, and all those theorists are trying to find the truth. There is the chance that the Warren Commision report is spot on, and the conspiracy guys are all nuts. In either case my point is that all those people can openly question the 'Official' reports without fear of reprisals. Of course the conspiracy guys will tell you that many people involved died "mysteriously", but they still get to say it, and they do.

Soviet Union? Have you ever heard of this book?
http://www.amazon.com/The-Commissar-.../dp/0805052941

I own a copy and it's...interesting, to say the least.

Oh no, I'm not arguing about that at all. Of course the level of covering-up that happened in the USSR is downright disturbing, and Putin isn't exactly a gift from heaven. Just pointing out that lying and murky business around state leaders is not really a Russian trait, and the very title of this thread irks me for that reason. Russian history is not made up of lies, and quite the opposite - in some regard, we know more 'truth' about Russian history than we do about many other places', with the benefit of hindsight on the fallen Soviet era that doesn't require romanticization and is, at least outside of Russia, largely de-politicized now when it comes to historical studies. It's a tragedy that the opening of the Soviet archives was so short-lived in the 90s, but even for the brief time that those were open, an unprecedented amount of historical evidence emerged. By comparison, much Western documentary history from the Cold War era is still locked away in intelligence agencies' vaults. So, even in respect to the brave Russian historians who delved into Soviet archives before they were locked away again, "Russian lies and Russian history" just strikes me as unfair to say the least, as does the notion that somehow Western history is more open. In some ways the reverse is true. Give credit where it's due, etc.

Got that right!

In that I have to agree. :sunny:

so true. A thief will steal all you have but a liar will watch you hang.

I was not aware that Russia had opened up it's archives to tell the truth for I spent my twenties on an FBM submarine with history books full of horrible things Russia had done after WWII. Mostly Stalin of course and most of my views are before the wall fell in 89 I think.

So I apoligize for being old and too stubborn to think that they have started to tell it's citzens the truth.



https://www.cia.gov/index.html

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...ook/index.html

Show me the link to KGB facts ...

You may have grown up there, true and think they told you the truth, but did they tell your parents the truth? I doubt it ... I do not mean that in a meanful spirit.

USA has President Johnson's lies of two North Vietnam patrol boats attacking the poor DE Turner Joy, which never happened resulting in 58,000 men and women losing their lives.

Just to point out a USA mistake, but we can at least argue the point online in this country.

You do realize that KGB hasn't existed in two decades, don't you?

As Steve has put it to a certain other member many times: it's not what you say, it's how you say it.

No, as a matter of fact I didn't know that ... now I have to read up all of the new rubbish the FSS will spew out, but as I have learned on our own news stations of ABC, CBS and NBC and Fox news to wait for the the third and fourth story on anything lol

Federal Security Service (Russia) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Security_Service_(Russia)

Common name: Federal Security ... Initial reorganization of the KGB. ... lead to committing crimes and arrest people for 15 days if they fail to comply …

Unlike MIT at least
 

Unlike MIT during our recent election. at least the Russian leaders haven't changed all that much since Ivan The Terrible.

Was Massachussetts Institute of Technology involved in the election in some way I missed?

Anyway, WELCOME ABOARD! :sunny:

All our leaders lie and its our job to question everything they say, the day we stop will be the day they win.

Lies and history :D :O:

http://originaldialogue.blogspot.de/...-on-earth.html

Interesting article, and I'd like to read the book. It seems to be mostly tongue-in-cheek, and looks like fun. It was also written by a Brit, which points out one of Britain's good points - the willingness to point out their own foibles and make fun of themselves.

That's a...

That's a pretty impressive list... :o I mean, I knew we got about but...well...good lord! :haha:

Can't read the link:wah:. Must be the Great Firewall. I'm seriously thinking about cancelling the rest of my exchange year and going back to Finland. Although if I keep complaining like I'm probably gonna get thrown out. Russia really is nothing compared to China. You have the government censoring the internet and writing anything that criticizes the communist party or doesn't fit the official history will get you trouble, labor camp if your unlucky. The history is modified to make china seem superior and anything suspicious is left out. You probably wont find any mention about tiananmen square. Most Chinese probably don't even know about it.

Lets see how long it takes for the police to come through my door.