It's probably only because I see it every day at work. The term sophmoric should not only apply to second-year students.

Sorry Skybird, but voting in a democratic society is not a 'framework'. It is a right; a right granted to all American citizens of the age Majority by the Constitution of the United States of America. If you want to argue that people should be informed about their choices when voting, then I can agree with that, but not your assumption that it is not a right. The ignorant have the same rights as I do.

Respect for one's decision of vote, whether it be your's, mine, Steve's, vienna's or Bubblehead's is irrelevant. A citizen of this nation may vote and does not require our approval.

Not being able to select one's leader(s) doesn't have a particularly great track record either. I assume that you've read enough history to know that. The current system, while not perfect, is certainly better than those in the past.

Wow. Did you really just compare voting to compulsory organ harvesting? This is where those fallacies that I was talking about come into play again.

I can't, and do not really wish to address your conspiracy theories, but I can gaurantee you that if you don't vote, you'll have a much better chance of seeing them realized.

I used a few different translators and then just responded using the general gist; the general gist is not far from your version; virtually a case of "same difference"... :)

Basically, it still boils down to this: if you don't play in the game, you can't make the rules or have the authority to complain about the results...

EDIT:

I just realized I misunderstood your misunderstanding of my posting; I was not offering a translation of the German quote, rather. I was making a response to the quote. I did not bother giving a translation; to those who do not read German, look it up and translate it like I did... :)


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Exactly. No vote No voice! In other words, if you don't vote and the one you wanted to win doesn't.... then don't bitch about what the winner does. You COULD have made a difference.

If you participate in legitimizing the corrupted and corruption, you have no right to complain and criticise the corrupted and corruption, for you helped to establish and strengthening it. You are an accomplice.

And don't deceive yourself. Making a cross on some list every four years, does not mean you have a say. If this shows anything, than only that you have no say at all. ;)

The names on posters come and go - the game stays the same, the corrupted rules stay the same, and that real hidden elite or hidden government, that amalgam of business lobby and political elitists stay the same. It's the same clans and the same secret circles.

And you have no say in their round, voting or not. All the circus you take so serious, is just set up to keep you distracted, and unaware.

I had this in my signature some weeks ago:
"Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people." - Theodore Roosevelt

I remind of Eisenhower's farewell speech on the military-industrial complex.

This combines both and illustrates just one perspective on the problem, defence spendings. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=LkdIKAACKpI

The policy of the two parties in the US, since decades is dominated by just the same generations-old family clans like the Bushs and the Kennedies, both acting before and behind the curtain, and some more that are less big and less influential, nevertheless are present in US poltics since generations. There is a name for that: feudalism. In Europe, such quasi-feudal structures have been established, too, in the form of parties and life-long career politicians whom you never get rid of by voting them out, since you cannot (they always return in some other post), but by them retiring from their career due to age reasons. They use parties as an industry which has this product to manufactuer: career politicians of a certain character shape and mindset, a production process that does not allow to build other models

You can call this freedom, and democracy, the right of free expression allows you to do that. I call it an empty, hollow facade, and I say since long time we live in the post-democratic era.

Oh dear, in one year, the campaign circus will run in Germany as well again. Brrrrr.

Strip them off the legitimation, the only one they need to continue, the turnout that is. Make them stand naked and without support, then they cannot claim to be legitimised by "the people" anymore. Keep the turnout low. Don't vote. If then they still cling to power, you have the moral right to revolt and start a revolution. As long as you legitimise them and their ways, you have not, and should be the dog sleeping at its master's feet.

Okay, that's great.

Moving on, it seems to me like this election should have some pretty good turnout. I see lots of signs around the neighborhood, although they will probably all be gone, one way or the other, by the time that Sandy shows up on Tuesday. A lot more, in fact, than I saw back in 2008. It's nice to see that kind of participation.

You're lucky, Takeda; as I mentioned before, here in California, neither party or candidate is bothering to do anything other than fundraising. If it weren't for the satewide and local contests and issues, you wouldn't even know there really was an election upcoming...

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I suppose that makes sense. Although Pennsylvania isn't all that 'in play' (I think it seems that it is going to Obama), California always seems perpetually blue, if you will. While there is not a whole lot of campaigning going on here relative to places like Ohio, it is probably more than what you are seeing in California. I can understand people not being motivated to vote.

It could be worse...

You could live in Las Vegas:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/16/us...pagewanted=all

73,000?! Holy crap. I mean, I agree that every vote is important, but that many ads for 6 electoral votes?

Not shame, more enforcing the law. In some states (I don't believe HI is one of them) in order for a vote to count, the citizen must be a registered voter on the day of the election.

South Dakota and Wisconsin are two such states that I can recall off hand.

We are still the United States of America and hence each of our states has different laws concerning elections.

The only problem I have with that is the electoral system as it affects small States like mine. I might agree with that old cliche if they only had a box that says None Of The Above.

I'll be writing in my preference yet again. I vote for who I want, not for the lesser of however many evils.

They say if I don't vote I can't complain. Now you say if I do vote I can't complain.

Everybody keeps telling me what I must do, and I don't believe any of you.

I'm going to vote, then complain about how long I had to stand in line. If whomever I vote for doesn't win, I'm going to complain about that for the next 4 years.:yeah: