SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - A complaint about this game

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- - A complaint about this game (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=194621)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Prates (Post 1874699)

So far, I am still one of the many users "awarded" with a bug in which the game's units simply freeze (but not the game itself). The developers seems to have no clue as to why this happens. All guys who have reported this flaw have acceptable hardware platforms.

Many people complain about that in paradox's specific forum, but our voices are being muffled by an atmosphere of sheer praise and compliments. A too-good-to-be-true cheer, by the way, as the game is plagued with many shortcomings, both in performance (no savegame button in single missons, for instance!) and in realism (aircraft being able to launch withins seconds even if you order their ordnance changed, for instance). I'm not saying that these praises are lies; maybe people just dont know better. Anyway, it is obvious that this "hurray!" climate is bringing down the effort from a part of the comunity (victims of this game's too early, untested release) to point out that main flaws are a fact and no solution is within sight - worse than that, the happiness of a majority of users (could be merely 50% + 1, i dont really know) appears to be posing the complaining ones as: a) an irrelevant group, considering that "so many people" are happy with the game; b) basicly, moaners that have nothing better to do than to disagree with the pre-concept that the devs are the best guys in the world, and thanks god for them.

Should you people be interested, I just posted this commentary on the game's specific forum in paradox forums:

"I would like, at this point, to bring attention to some issues that are not being properly discussed. They relate to this specific bug (of which I am STILL a victim, by the way), but to some other overall issues.

Though the developers (of which I assume JanH is a main representant) are obviously trying (apparently) to solve this main issue, I too think that the problem is being downplayed somewhat, in an indirect manner.

People are always saying that paradox has a huge online comunity, that many developers are there improving their games etc... that is all fine, of course, but it all is said in such a manner as if they (devs and comunity) were doing us FAVOURS of which we were supposed to be imensely grateful.

That is not how it works. We are CUSTUMERS. I bougth a game (this and many others, chech how much games I have activated) because of paradox's standards (which used to be higher). When I buy a game I expect it to work, to have support, to have answers. But all i've been seeing is one of two things: a) a developer saying "we're on it" every now and then, and b) for every time a dev says something, there are 100 other users saying things like "get off the guys back. My game works fine, so its your problem, be patient". As if I were here to get the opinion of other users! Some guy actually had the nerve to come to me and say "its obviously a problem at your end, as I had no such complaint".

Why do I see so many people here in a "touchy" stance? "Oh my, dont complain, the devs are great guys and are doing their best... dont be mean to them... what would happen if they decided to stop being helpful " etc etc... what the heck is going on? We are now coming to understand that we bougth an un-ready game, and we are the bad guys for coming here and complain about it? I paid for this game, damn it, and I want it working! And on the side, I would also like for satisfied customers (or "lucky customers" they should be called, as they are just that, lucky for having the game to work) to stop meddling with anything but constructive opinions. For every constructive opinion I read from an user, I read 10 or so post praising the game and making it seem that the complaining custumers are something like an comunity pariah.

Paradox really should come out and say "here is your money back. We'll correct the game then put it out again - so next time you buy a game from us, you will know we mean business".

And I tought I was the only one. For me the game is currently unplayable. When it starts to freeze, its just a matter of minutes til it unfreezes with that pathetic "defeated" screen. The game was obviously released un-tested. Not a good strategy when we naval warfare simmers have been waiting patiently for a new game for about a decade now. :damn:

I gave up playing and gave up complaining and reporting its bugs when people accused me of complaining on behalf of another game currently in development, which I am an active member of its community, as if my complains were part of a marketing plot. Pathetic! :dead:

Well you could have downloaded the demo first, but don't let that get in the way of your massive entitlement complex:

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When we naval warfare simmers have been waiting patiently

Right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julhelm (Post 1875162)

Well you could have downloaded the demo first, but don't let that get in the way of your massive entitlement complex:

Right.

I did download the demo, and I really enjoyed it, and even if I had not enjoyed it, I would have bought the game anyways, like all of the other naval games I bought just to support our loved genre.

Naval simmers like us, who love this genre, usually spend time "reading" and "studying" the subject, like current flight simulators, sometimes called "study sims", we usually do our homeworks, so soon after I started playing the campaing, its bugs, flaws and inconsistences started to emerge. In my opinion if not all, at least most of them current bugs and flaws would had been solved if the game hadnt been rushed out to release in first place. Take your time, do it right to do it once.
Who doesnt know the impact and value of first impressions?

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormrider_sp (Post 1875170)

Who doesnt know the impact and value of first impressions?

... Then why this need to slam the thing completely? That "quitting in a huff" thread over at Paradox and the now-deleted post here saying it's not worth the money; you don't think that affects people's decision on the matter?

Can't you just make reasonable statements? An issue slipping through QA doesn't mean something is untested or rushed, at most it means they should expand their QA efforts.

It's your attitude that's attracting the flak, not the fact you have a complaint.

Hardware issues are often the hardest ones to pin down. PCs come in all sorts of different configurations, different hardware, software, drivers, etc. I have worked as a Beta tester before and no matter how much the Devs tried to test their game or patch on as many different configs as possible, as soon as the game/patch was released, you would invariably have users posting about technical problems.

That is also one of the major reasons why major developpers/publishers are moving to consoles, since when you design a game for the XBOX, you know every player will be using exactly the same hardware.

I am merely comenting this game. Lots of people (take Julhem for instance) have chosen to take matters personally and even to insult me on the matter ("massive entitlement complex"? Ouch. Even my nationality was insulted in another post dowh there. I should perpahs report this to the forum moderators and see what they think of it).

My point was to evidentiate that this game's evident flaws are being downplayed, more than that, swept under the rug by a faction of fanatics (I cant think of another word), that are taking the matter personally and going through huge lenghts to demerit a lot of unsatisfied costumers - as if we were not within our rights to demand a fix for the problem.

People like this julhem guy have actually helped me to prove just that. I cant understand it, really I cant.

I quite agree. There will always be folks who think that as long as it runs on their personal system, it must run on everyone else's.

I've seen all kinds of oddities and crashes, but there isn't really much to send as there is no Save Game function. Also, a good many of my MP matches end in crashes due to overloads of the server. Again, I have no access to it. I doubt a video or screenshot would be of much use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat (Post 1875258)

This is the reason why I give smaller developers more room. They do not have the experience nor money to playtest 1000 different configurations.

I am just glad some devs do not "take the easy way out" with making a console version, then porting it to PC as an afterthought later.

Yet the (mainly monetary) limitations should not cloud the vision they had, which in my opinion is a solid and rare naval sim, that is fun. With time and patches, I am sure it will improve.

It was a 19 dollar game.

Paradox is famous for buggy releases. Sword of the Stars 2 STILL isn't even Full Feature complete and its been out for what over half a year now?

Sure you paid for a product and you are entitled to complain. However I don't think you really got the short side of the deal. They sold you a product and they are currently attempting to fix it. I bought it and I have shelved it.

I feel like people are getting premature on the panic button. hell the naval sim genre is notorious for their games to not even be considered 'good' or in their 'prime' until the community has had time to mod them up anyways.

So short story- "Yes you bought a CHEAP game, its broken, but its being worked on. Give it time to mature before you have a meltdown."

latest words from the Devs:

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We're working on fixing it as fast as we can. As I said this issue does not turn up in any machines it has been tested on here, so we try to find a system where the problem can be observed and thus fixed. In the meantime we're improving memory management and optimizing code.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...4#post13749284

I really don't know know what more you can ask for.

I totally understand the frustation of players who cannot currently play the game, but the posters who complain that the game was released in a rushed, incomplete and/or buggy state unfortunately do not understand the nature of PC software in general or of PC gaming software in 2012.

Version 1.0 of any software will always have some technical problems, that is a fact of life. The real question is whether the developpers/publishers will support the game, fix whatever problems crop up and continue to further develop the game.

On this subject, many opinions (not coincidentaly, coming from people who got the game to work) fall into a generic cathegory: its a cheap game, chill out, its being worked out etc.

I would like again to stress out that the whole reason I am taking this matter so seriously is not the bug itself. Its a matter of PRICIPLE. It is the problem that this kind of rushed-out, flawed games are becoming increasingly common. It is the posture that the comunity is taking, in increasingly larger numbers, to silence complaints and treat the developers and distributors as people doing us favours.

Where this road is going to lead us? It has become so impopular do cricticize the devs, that many people has sent me private messages to agree with me. Why private? Are we afraid to say what we think, now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat (Post 1875602)

latest words from the Devs:

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...4#post13749284

I really don't know know what more you can ask for.

I totally understand the frustation of players who cannot currently play the game, but the posters who complain that the game was released in a rushed, incomplete and/or buggy state unfortunately do not understand the nature of PC software in general or of PC gaming software in 2012.

Version 1.0 of any software will always have some technical problems, that is a fact of life. The real question is whether the developpers/publishers will support the game, fix whatever problems crop up and continue to further develop the game.

You say you understand the frustration of people who can't play?
This goes to Arclight as well.

You and Arclight, are probably having a good time playing, ignoring its obvious flaws, but you are having a good time, the game is running.
I can't play! It freezes during every attempt!

What else can I say about the game?
Shouldnt I push the Panic button or wait until god knows when because they are a small team of devs...

Is it my attitude?

Cheers

T'is the underhanded stuff;

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormrider_sp (Post 1875207)

I meant task force because while I´m radiating the targeted one, I´m rushing the other one to group up with the Frigate.
But you´re right, you only have to kill 2 ships and the mission terminates itself instantly.

There's no reason there to take a shot at the game because you don't like the mission end screen.

That's why I'm bothering you. Not because I think you don't have a right to complain, but because you do so in a manner that is downright offensive.

And yes, I'm perfectly familiar with not being able to play something I payed for. Silent Hunter 5, which I bought at release for easily twice the price of NWAC, was unplayable for a large amount of time. The Ubisoft servers it was shackled to went down on several occasions.

Let's not even get started on how the quality was compared to NWAC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Prates (Post 1875636)

While this is in some respects true, in that release of 'rushed' or incomplete games is becoming the norm in some cases - it has more to do with the relative ease of modern communications mediums (the patching process, especially when 'delivered' by a third party interface like Steam) and cash-strapped Publishers pushing devs to finish working on a game before its ready in order to recoup investments or running costs from the release. It has very little to do with the actual developers, in the great majority of cases.

While your 'take a stand' notion is a noble one, unless you can simultaneously convince a good 80% of the current gaming demographic to join in your protest, it will achieve nothing. Beyond that, it would do you credit to consider the circumstances of each game/dev/publisher independently - consider NWAC, with its team of six or so relatively independent devs under a small publisher, and corporations like Ubi, like EA and so on - the larger, 'peer' companies that actively enforce this business model.

Target your ire if you wish it to be effective, and remember that polite ire is harder to ignore than impolite.:up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Prates (Post 1875269)

People like this julhem guy have actually helped me to prove just that. I cant understand it, really I cant.

Maybe it's because I work in game development and have first hand experience of having to ship a game no matter what and then be rewarded by usersgoing on a crusade to blast the product because they stumbled upon some bug (Apple doesn't let the really gamebreaking bugs past their review). We even had users consistently post scathing, blasting reviews on iTunes for each new patch even though we had long patched their original complaint, which was a server bug that would randomly not award XP after a match.

So yeah, take a chill pill. They've said they're trying their hardest to fix it ASAP. So be reasonable about it. Game development is a hell of a lot more difficult than you probably imagine it to be.