I'm not clear on why the President is strengthening his ties to the ME. At a guess I'd say that whatever the reason, his actions must have reaped some benefit to our country.

I'd almost bet dollars to pesos that none of the protesters are aware of the coded messages. It's easy for people to get stirred up over something that seems so benign when they don't have all the facts. And who in a crowd of angry people would dare ask the logical question of "Why are we doing this?". Nobody would hear them anyway. :hmmm:


The war in Afghanistan:

I think it was FUBAR'd after the Taliban was driven out of the country. I've been reading up on the Korean War lately, and what I have learned so far is that the ROK divisions had plenty of reason to fight. They learned everything they could from KMAG, and used every resource made available to them by the US. I think that if the Afghan people had good enough reason to fight insurgency they would stand up and learn everything they can from our advisors. From what I've read it seems as if this is another war where the American soldier is expected to die for the indigenous people -- to do all the lifting so to speak. "Yes, we want our country to be safe, but we don't want to do it ourselves." Once our troops are withdrawn the country will slip back into chaos. Waste much effort? Oh yeah, it's a waste alright. :shifty:

I couldn't agree more. 158 of my countrymen have died in this country and for what? Don't say it's for democracy cause that's just political crap fed to the gullible. Picking a side to support in this medevial society is like asking who you would like to run your neighbourhood; the Mafia or the Hell's angels. Their interests and goals are not what we want.

"Once our troops are withdrawn the country will slip back into chaos."

Sad, but for certain it will happen.

@krash
Money resources and ease of transport, plus arms sales and regional influence...same reasons every modern president has done so in the region. Same reasons as european leaders do it and the same reason why china does it.

:doh:Someones hatred is clouding their very slim grip on reality.
When their heads pop open in anger it is other people who get their heads cut off.
If Skys eugenic dream of selective breeding can one day make it so brainless twats suffer a massive aneurism when they get angry it might be a good idea to go round annoying them for the fun of it and reaping its benefits, but in this reality the result is that they go round killing other people so it is a bloody stupid thing to do and is of no benefit at all.


@crank
What do you mean "back into chaos"?
The country has remained in chaos despite the troops presence.
One thing this latest act of stupidity by troops has done is bringing the chaos to the forefront in areas of the country where it was only simmering under the surface.

I would be surprised if anything really crossed their minds besides simple "Lets destroy some infidel graves"
It was probably something similar to Monty Python witch burning scene.

@Tribesman
I was quoting krashkart, but you're right on that. Bringing a war machine to any country can only cause or add to chaos. Trying to help these people with military intervention is pissin' into the wind. Every time you accidentally kill a civilian you make hundreds of new enemies, anyone of which has the potential to be another Bin Laden.
Original thought, we shouldn't be there. It's a hopeless cause.

Thanks for clarifying that. Some things just go over my head. :salute:


Yeah, that was my slip-up. :-?

From someone on the ground over there those books were burned because they were being used as "Kites" to pass extremist messages written between the lines between captured Taliban and other insurgents.

They just weren't disposed of very discretely.

U.S soldiers burned Koran. We know this episode.

But which are the consequences ?

-------------------------

For Muslims, these soldiers were NATURALLY Christians.

For Muslims, burning Koran is considered as a crime.

For Muslims, this was NATURALLY a Christian crime.

For Muslims, this Christian crime was NATURALLY premeditated.

For Muslims, this premeditated Christian crime was NATURALLY intended as a sacrilege.

For Muslims, punishing all Christians through the world for this sacrilege is NATURAL and OBLIGATORY.

Conclusion : for Muslims, punishing near Christians (even in tombs) is also NATURAL.


Good remark ... and a small precision : some US soldiers burned religious books in Afghanistan. Yes, this was not really intelligent, but it was only about paper. And I think that there is a doubt about the will to make a sacrilege.

But when Muslims are starting to burn some Christian things, they burn also paper (the Bible) ... and the church ... and the Catholic school beside ... and the priest ... and the Christian people inside (I mean : women, men, children ...).

In this case, is there here a doubt about the Muslim will to make a sacrilege ?

Another remark : maybe Western European people made the same terrible things 10 centuries ago. Sorry ! But we are speaking about TODAY (2011/2012 facts), not about a far past.

On this particular point, ask the Copts in Egypt : http://www.voiceofthecopts.org/

Last remark : why Western European people fighted Islam 10 centuries ago ? Because Muslims prevented Christians to go in Jerusalem for their pilgrimage or reduced them to slavery. What could happen if now Christians prevented Muslims to go in Mecca for their pilgrimage ? No doubt : the Third World War ...

Honestly things like this only make me feel that organized religion is bad for humanity not just a particular religion.Some Christians and Muslims have been fighting each other for many generations both sides did nasty things to the other during the crusades.Both sides have done nasty things to the other during the Lebanon Wars.Some Hindus and Muslims wish to wipe each other out on the Indian subcontinent.Some Jews and Muslims have be killing the other for many generations as well with both sides being guilty of nasty acts.
This fact leads me to feel that by and large organized religion is to blame.Almost every religion claims that it is right and all others are wrong and that makes it very easy first to use fear of damn nation to control people and it makes it very easy to make non believers as something less than human.

You need to read up a little more on the Crusades as well _dgn_ it is a great example of how organized religion is bad for all humanity.

With both the Libyans and the Afghans, one has to recognize that there a contingent who is looking for an excuse, any excuse to demonstrate. If on one had burned Qur'ans they would have found some other excuse to be offended.

All we did was make it a bit more convenient.

That was the entire point I was making people though out history have used one religion or another as a reason to kill,maim,and act stupid.

You are just blinding your self to think that only people from a certain region or a certain religion are susceptible when it is know that
people all over the world use religion as their reasoning to do stupid things.

Not every Libyan or Afghan has the same views that is like saying all Americans agree with the Tea Partiers or the Occupy Wall Street protectors.

Islam is what is defined as such by Quran, an dpratcice supported by sharia which is nimpossible to be separated from the Quranic tradition. there is no true Islam without Sharia.

The Quran teaches a fundamentalist ideology. Its purpose was and is conquest, and enforcing own military and social power by enforced unity. Of the masses. It bases on supremacist concepts, racism, explicit hate on Jews, and is not shy to waste own life to help the cause of Islam. Muhammad at one part of the Quran mocked his warriors when before a battle they got doubts on whether it was right that they try to kill those they were about to attack. He promised them paradise when they said they had doubts on whether they want to sacrifice thei9r own life in the effort to kill enemies.

Islam is no friendly, humane, tolerant ideology.

But it is perfectly possible for people to deceive themselves over the grim nature of Islam. Like not all "Christians" that once a year flock into the churches on christmas are really christian, but just want to get their yearly dose of sentimental feelings and childhood memories, Muslims can ignore all they do not want to be known about islam'S inner implication, but still claim to be "Muslim". But they are not.

Islamic ideology is extremely unlikely to be altered by exposing it to Wetsern connsumarism and way of life. Just weeks ago a federal study of the German govenrment had to conclude ONCE AGAIN that second and third generations in Muslim immigrant families radicalise massively and are more orthdoox than their parents and grandparents who came here 50 years ago. Another report at the same time two or three weeks agi I think showed that radical sects - in fact they are not radical at all but just truly islamic sects - massively blossom in Germany, and that the young move to them in masses. "Radical" hate preachers find growing and thnakful audiences here. In fact, thy are just Islamic. Hate is part of islam. In Western thinking it is about demonising the enemy. And To Isdlam everything and everyone not being Islamic is "enemy".

Westerns do not want to listen to this. It rules out their concepts of multi-culti and tolerance could every work the way Westerners want it. But these concepts only work to our own fall, with Islam benefitting from that. Ignorrance is a bad advisor. And we start to feel it. In Germany, in shrinking intervals more and more second-row politicians claim they want to implement shariah in German law code. But German judges time and again already act on the basis of shariah las and respect for this foreign culture -sometimes violating german law that way. Islamic "mediators" already now interfere with police investigations.Witnesses fall silent in fear, families force embers to not cooperate, crimes get covered and hidden, girl trading and abuse of females are on the rise, with the number of police success declining. Great thing, this Shariah mediation. It is becasue Shariah in prinicple is not interested in the question of who is guilty and who is victim. shariah focusses on mediating an outcome that allows the patriarchs to save their face and to kedep the lid on the pressure cooker so that nothing could disturb the social "freedom". And as you can imagine, women and girls come last in this hierarchy of priorities. As already the Quran says, the woman's confession is worth only half of that cofnession of a male, and its moral duty is to obey and to be submissive.

So, Steelhead, it may or may not be true that Muslims have different levbels of sympoathy for the Quranic teaching. But that does not chnage the Quanic teaching itself, nor does it make a big difference in reality. In the West, muslim parallel socieities are masiovely dominated by the true Muslims (you probably would call them "radical" Muslims). And the vast majority of Muslims, whether they be "moderate" or "radical" themselves, do not stop them, give them hiding and shaeter, and cimplain about us when we go after the "rqadicals" and call it rcism and discrminiation and insist we - non-believer sof their faith - nevertheless have to pay full respect to their customs and traditions even if mosques get used for conspiratory meetings, recruiting of cannon fodder for terrorism, and "radical" propaganda.

do not judge islam by what this or that Musolim stells you aboitu it. judge it by the Quran, Sharia practicing, and world history. Objective self-reflection and a critical anaylsis of itself is not what Islam is shining at. Islamic educations aims at right preventing this. ;) It is no education for learning how to independently using your brain on these issues, but it is about uncritically copying the Quran's dogma.

And that is where Sky runs into his usual problem of brainfreeze, according to him there is only one version of sharia, and that is the fairly modern wahhibi concept of it....which obviously is a view which is clearly self contradictory if you have a functioning mind:doh:

That sums it up...Muslims are pain in the back....but not all of them are bad.:haha:

Focus at the full part of the glass and don't piss the sensitive and very vocal rest...that's the basic in this political gymnastics.
Not because Islam is OK and welcomed...it is because it strong and dangerous or pain in a back when crossed.
Lets be smart and apologise....better than get a kicks in the balls right?:haha:

I read a comment in another forum which goes like this:
"If we would have the same kind of love for fellow humans that we have for objects, we would be some steps futher."

Especially after reading about the suicide attack at the Jalalabad airfield today: yes, it makes perfect sense to blow up 9 fellow muslim civlilians because someone "disrespected" a book... :damn:

A professor of Islamic studies explained it like this:
(source:http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Globa...am-s-holy-book)

This is the mindset I can't get. Well, no matter who this Jesus guy was, son of god or an human being with some thoughts that were revolutionary for its time: he was crucified, but his ideas survived.
Jesus, same as the quran, stands for some ideas. No matter if you burn people or symbols who represent these ideas - the ideas are still there.
If you truly believe into those ideas, or a faith, an ideology or something similar, if you have true convictions it doesn't matter what happens, you still believe as ideas can't be burned or crucified.
Maybe this is the "sin" of what many followers are afraid of: to have doubts about their own faith; the crutch which allows them to paint the world in black and white. What if the quran was only a book, written in the desert by other humans? What if the Earth still keeps on rotating, no matter if you burn one, none or all qurans?

I know there are many people on here with a faith, this is not to put you down, whatever gets you through your life is fine.
I have a problem with people who think like drones, unable to reflect their own mind and actions, unable to see beyond their pre-fab world.


Although I presume that you mean "if one would not had burned", I think you exactly nailed it.