SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - Can't seem to get upgraded to Gato, TMO2.5

SUBSIM Radio Room Forums (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/index.php)

- SH4 Mods Workshop (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=219)

- - Can't seem to get upgraded to Gato, TMO2.5 (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=192657)

I have always been in Fremantle when I moved up from a Gar to a Tambor, but always career start at Cavite. I'm playing 2.2 now and I am in Surabaya so I'm not sure what the Fremantle flotilla is called. When playing the 'Terrible T' it's usually transferring in or out of Fremantle in late 43/early 44 where myself and at least one other person I know of was time warped back to July 42.

As for renown, mine always fluctuates too much to have an average, so I can not help you there.

On a side note, I was excited when 2.5 came out with the 'T' campaign, sorry it didn't work out as you had planned. The rest of the changes are great, the environments and the night surface attacks had really made the game more enjoyable. It's a shame you put so much work into a game that you no longer enjoy playing, but I think I can speak not just for myself but for a lot of people when I say your work is greatly appreciated. TMO is an excellent mod.

I do hope some kind of patch type fix will become available as some people, especially myself, are not very good at file changing/swapping. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus (Post 1846920)

I've been thinking about what you said here the last couple days.

I need two bits of information from those experiencing this problem.

1.) How much renown are you averaging per patrol? What was the most renown you earned in any single patrol?

2.) After being offered a Tambor, are you in the same flotilla, or are you being transported into the Terrible T flotilla? ( You can check but looking at the transfer menu (phone in office), it should list the description of your current flotilla at the top of that screen. )

I'm developing a two part theory that
A.) renown earned influences upgrade class. In my testing, I only tested what was considered a good patrol. I didn't test excellent patrol ratings. Maybe why it worked on my computer?

b.) I have a sneaky suspicion your in the same flotilla you were to begin with. As i recall, the Missions for the tambor still reside in every flotilla the boat was assigned to. All i did, as a short cut (because i didn't feel like rewriting the ENTIRE FILE), was date the tambor availablity dates to be post war. It could be the game is not paying attention to when the boat is available in terms of date, and fixates only if missions are available for it.

I wish I could answer your question as accurately as you would probably deem necessary, but a lot of variables came into play in my experience which might have influenced the actual number, like a "Command Presence" specialist who influenced my renown.:hmmm:

Still, I can say that my renown (I thought) was a little on the high side. There were a lot of Jap subs that kept appearing during my patrols too. I think I came across six or seven over three patrols (3 on one patrol alone). They were split between contacts in the South Chian Sea and the Flores Sea. I also came across large numbers of tankers (Large and Medium) in the Makassar Strait. So many in fact, that I never made it to my patrol objectives (the shortest routes being through the Makassar) without expending all of my ordinance and RTBing. I was averaging about 55 to 60k tonnage per patrol, about half of which were large tankers.
There was almost no air patrols (even near air bases), and even running RSRDC in tandem with TMO, it was sparse enough for me to take notice.

I've since started a new career using the workaround that you previously mentioned (so far no problems), so I cannot check for sure what flotilla I was assigned to. I will say that I was stuck at Fremantle right after Cavite and, even after a Jan. 1, 44 transfer to Midway, I was still being assigned to patrol areas that I had been patrolling when I was based at Perth-Fremantle. There was one point where I was advised to shift my base of operations to Milne Bay (via radio message) but, my Home Port (tilted anchor) never changed over from Fremantle.

I'm hoping that this will help some in your endeavor to narrow things down.;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus (Post 1846016)

Anyway in the interm, to fix this problem, you'll have to look at the submarine UPC files of the last version of TMO, in specific the upgradeclass variable. It should be near the top section of the file. Edit this to the last version of TMO, and then take the careerstart.upc file, and the flotilla.upc file as well. They're located i belelive, data/upcdata/upccampaign or something like that. Should be a straight drag and drop. This will pretty much be what the patch will look like, if you want to go ahead and fix the problem yourself. I will patch it, though i cannot say when. I have very little desire to look at the game, other then to save face from my collossoal screw up, and i don't have any of the previous files backed up on my new computer. So if i can't grab the old files, ill have to fix things the hard way.

The above is going by memory mind you, i'm slightly buzzed right now from captain morgan rum.

I'm attempting your fix..........In order to replicate a completely controlled environment I will partake of much Bulleit Bourbon in the process. Hopefully that'll smooth out any abberations. Buuuurrrrpppp!

I've reset the upgradeclass variable for the Tambor from 5 back to 1 as per TMO 2.2.

I've copy and pasted the flotillas upc from 2.2 into my 2.5

and I'm taking the careerstart upc from 2.0 and pasting it into 2.5... (not present in the 2.2 upgrade.

I'll let you know how it goes ....my not so scientific criteria will be if I get upgraded to a Gato when I hit Brisbane....

I'll run a campaign from S boats in Manila/Surubaya/Freemantle/Brisbane transfer/Upgrade to a Salmon or Sargo usually happens here around patrol 4 or 5......Upgrade to Gato usually kicks over around patrol 10.....

I posted some information about my experiences with this bug. Here is the relevant section:

Quote:

I did some poking around with the save files. It appears that what happens is that upon accepting a new command, you get "TamborCareer", which is the "Terrible T" career/campaign. That is the only option you get and once you have that career you are essentially stuck there forever. The Freemantle base change seems to be a "Terrible T" bug that pops up just as soon as your next base change occurs.

In addition there was a flotilla change.

Incidentally, I'm in the midst of another career, starting in a Gato out of Pearl in June 1942. At the conclusion of 3rd Patrol (24 Dec), I was offered a new sub. Turned out to be a Balao. So, it doesn't always seem to happen.

As for renown, it's been a long time since I got other than an excellent for a patrol, so I don't think it is renown related, particularly since I didn't get a Tambor in this most recent career.

Historically the new GATO class boats first sailed out of Pearl/Midway and didn't patrol from Fremantle and other ports Asiatic until Dec 42/Jan 43.

I didn't look at any stock or modded SH4 flotilla's to see, but it seems like Ducimus (for example) tried to strike a balance leaning toward historical accuracy - with some leeway.

Pearl would be where I'd expect to get moved into a GATO class first.

Happy Hunting!

Art

Quote:

Originally Posted by aanker (Post 1848190)

Well, yeah, historically speaking the first Gato's were dispatched to Pearl.....

The problem (in 2.5 due to whatever reasons...."Terrible T" etc..) is that the Tambor class has upgrade precedence over all other types it seems. I was "upgraded" from a Gar to a Tambor.... that does not make sense at all when you consider that the Gar class was the later model.

If you look at the upgradeclass in the upc files for all the various boats you'll notice initially that the S boat's are 0 and all other early war fleet boats (Sargo, Salmon, Gar, Tambor) are upgradeclass 1 respectively. Gato is 2, Balao is 3, etc..

The implication is, other than from an S boat starting career, you shouldn't get an upgrade to anything other than a Gato at minimum dependent upon availability. Upgrades ought to progress from 0 to 1, to 2 then 3 depending upon class availability. It should be impossible to get upgraded from a 1 to a 1.

The Tambor being set to 5 probably throws the proverbial monkey wrench into the works....

If you open up the NSS_(class).cfg file and change "HumanPlayable" to no, I assume the game will not offer you an upgrade to that class, right?

GAR to a TAMBOR. The designer of SH4 said if you had a bad patrol you could get downgraded. Well, maybe he hinted that.

All SH4 cares about is Objectives. Complete them and SH4 is happy. It doesn't care about sinking Capital ships, only Objectives.

Can you pick up the phone and transfer to Pearl? There were so few TAMBOR and GAR class, maybe you triggered something to give you a new command and the dice came up TAMBOR.

By Objectives I'm not saying refit & refuel and go out again. Just complete yours and if you have enough torpedoes and fuel, radio in and get another Objective. Doing that you should progress up the classes etc.

Happy Hunting!

Art

Quote:

Originally Posted by gAiNiAc (Post 1848523)

The Tambor being set to 5 probably throws the proverbial monkey wrench into the works....

Is that the TAMBOR or TENCH class that is 5?

I should download 2.5 and look. The game behaves the way I described.

Message above, after completing that one or two Objective patrol RTB. You knew that.... lol

I'm sorry.

Lastly, I would love to patrol in USS TUNA (SS-203) in the middle of the War, proud warrior that she is! :)

Happy Hunting!

Art

Quote:

Originally Posted by aanker (Post 1848566)

GAR to a TAMBOR. The designer of SH4 said if you had a bad patrol you could get downgraded. Well, maybe he hinted that.

All SH4 cares about is Objectives.

No bad patrols........I know about the objectives........tonnage & types does impact renown though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aanker (Post 1848567)

I said Tambor... :DL

Quote:

tonnage & types does impact renown though.

Technically speaking, yes :)

Downloading . . . . . luckily I have his other versions he refers to.

There is a campaign I usually like to put on top which includes all Special Missions conducted, (doesn't call the stock or other modded missions) different Objectives, forward bases, and different/more start dates, so installing without that will be different.

Looks like he was thinking a typo in the upc's.

Also going to look at the manual "nobody reads"... lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by aanker (Post 1848566)

Also going to look at the manual "nobody reads"... lol

It's an excellent manual; i've read it a few times :salute:. End to end this is one helluva polished mod......

:arrgh!:

Almost have it, according to what Ducimus said, I need some Captain Morgan to catch up ( just kidding ) .. actually need about 2 hrs and should be right back with it.

Lets see if this works:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...=3506&act=down

If it doesn't we can delete it.

TMO_25_fix_attempt, "1_TMO_25_small_patch.rar" (25.9 KB)

Test fix, I followed Ducimus recollection, modified two 2.5 Submarines with 2.2 patch data, and dragged Flotillas from 2.2.
As he mentioned Career Start, I got that from 2.0 because it wasn't in 2.2.

Hopefully it works. Install it on top of TMO 2.5.

Ducimus has not endorsed me, I'm just trying to help a burnt out old nice guy modder, Mr Ducimus.

Happy Hunting!

Art

Ducimus wrote:

Quote:

Anyway in the interm, to fix this problem, you'll have to look at the submarine UPC files of the last version of TMO, in specific the upgradeclass variable. It should be near the top section of the file. Edit this to the last version of TMO,

and then take the careerstart.upc file,

and the flotilla.upc file as well.

They're located i belelive, data/upcdata/upccampaign or something like that.

Should be a straight drag and drop. This will pretty much be what the patch will look like, if you want to go ahead and fix the problem yourself. I will patch it, though i cannot say when. I have very little desire to look at the game, other then to save face from my collossoal screw up, and i don't have any of the previous files backed up on my new computer. So if i can't grab the old files, ill have to fix things the hard way.

The above is going by memory mind you, i'm slightly buzzed right now from captain morgan rum. Anyway, the only way to salvage the concept behind the terrible T campaign, is basically to disable and remove every freaking sub from play EXCEPT the one boat you want to play the entire war. Kinda sucks, but there it is.