I think Ducimus has it right. War is not waged for public approval. It's not pretty and seldom humane. It is inhuman at best, and down right ugly in its worst moments. Like he said this is nothing new and it will happen again. I believe that if we knew everything that went on we wouldn't sleep to well.

The media has to make a big deal out of this. It's just the thing they wait for and will debate it to no end. With cell phones in combat expect more of the same.


In the early 70's I met a Viet Nam vet who boasted to me that he killed a Viet Cong prisoner. Later when I questioned him on this, he told me that he saw his closest buddy die a few days earlier. Even then a few years later he still hadn't accepted it. My attitude changed and I'm glad I've never been to war.

"It is well that war is so terrible. We should grow too fond of it" Robert E. Lee

Not desirable, for it does not serve the purpose of securing the military objective, but is best advertising campaign for the enemy's recruiting program.

But let's face it, in a war you also need the blood-thirsty biting dogs to do the bloody dirty stuff that is inevitable in war. You cannot fight and win with caring, civilised mental attitude alone - you need brutality on your side as well, and that takes a mental attitude that not everybody can produce.

That said, I wonder what is going on in some people's head. Not only the unneeded act itself, but even taking pictures - taking evidence...? Have they gotten hit in the head before, or were they alraedy born that dumb?

"Krieg vertiert." - Egon Bahr

The initial strike against the Taliban was with Napalm.

They were trying to put out the fire so they could render medical aid as necessary. It was a humanitarian effort.

Thats my story and I am sticking to it!:yeah:

I sure as heck wouldn't want to do what these Marines are doing.

All I want to hear about is successful outcome I really don't want to know how they achieved it. It's a war, and it's a nasty mean business in which we send our fellow man to do the unthinkable. As some, shaking their heads in disgust while playing U-Boot commander on a computer remenicing of the real glories of war.

All I got to add is I guess it sucked being a Taliban that day

So where's the outrage, when the taliban stones women to death, disfigures them, murders noncombatants, and does other terrorrist acts maybe we should just p on them, killing them doesn't seem to bother them. Next time don't take pictures.

In fairness, the Taliban isn't funded by American tax dollars and backed by international mandates.


Or wait, is it :hmmm:

Well said. War somehow brings out the worst in people, especially the particpants. How many of you would be that much different if you were in the same circumstances?

well, it's war....

It's an outrage that with these type of incidents our men are lowering their standarts while representing our nations and what we stand for.
Aren't we supposed to be better?

I don't mind if they wipe out the Taliban (good riddance if you ask me) but let's not get carried away with childish acts like this.

HunterICX

Ever visited the real world?
In case you missed reality while you were crawling out of the bottle the widespread well publicised outrage against the Taliban is one major reason why the action in Afghanistan was so well supported.
But hey if you want to lower the standards so everyone has to match some crazy fundamentalists when it comes to ethics then you truly are deserving of pity.

What real world, your wishy washy world, then I would just sume retreat in too a bottle, but I have no intentions in doing so, it doesn't do anything for me anymore, and at that point of my life I had a good time being a partier, and beleive me I had a very good time, so if you are so outraged that a few young marines p'd on some corpses then we should get our troops out of there right now and never get into another conflict until we decide to win one. Me for one, I don't care what goes on, on the battlefeild as long as we are winning, as a Marine myself and if I just killed someone that was trying to kill me damn right I'd p on them too. All we are doing is sending a messeage to our ememies how weak we are, and have no resolve too win, because we are so worried that we might hurt our enemies feelings. The left has turned this country into a bunch of wussies. And with your high standards we would never win, in war you need to be meaner and nastier than your enemy so that he doesn't want show up on the battlefeild, that's how you win wars .

No the real world, maybe you should be introduced to it, its the one where people condemn the Taliban for being arses, its also the one where people condemn the Somalis when they drag bodies through the streets of mogadishu or the Iraqis when they burn bodies and hang them from bridges....which also should be the one where pissing on a body is equally condemned, especially by those who go crazy with outrage when some other nations pricks are doing it.

Is that why you stayed pissed for decades until you lost your job, the real world was too much for ya to handle?

You really are clueless ain't ya.:doh:

Tell that to Heinrich, I don't think his soldiers got the message.

Strange, but by the principle of what yubba is saying, i agree. I am a strong fan of beheading your enemy and stick their heads on poles and line them up at the border, facing the direction of the enemy's home land and giving a warning to everybody daring to cross that border again in hostile intention. In case of Muslim armies and other enemies believing in that stuff: poke their eyes out, too.

If Islam, which is a fundamentalist and totalitarian ideology from all beginning on, and is a conqueror's self-justifying ideology, if this Islam understands one communication beside its own megalomianic claim for ruling all and ruling alone, then this other form of communication is only force and a determination and a ruthlessness equal to or surpassing its own. No external power has brought Islamic expansion ever to a halt, except this: superior fighting power, military superiority (or pure luck). Strength and force are the only external form of communication Islam really understands, and reacts too. All other kinds of deals and negotiations and treaties are just seen as forms of the other's weakness, and thus: an invitation to exploit and abuse them.

War is neither just, nor fair, and it certainly is not humane or civilised. It is the absence of all these qalities. That is what defines it. You cannot judge war by moral standards from peacetime, that never worked, never made sense, and never will. If you cannot see and accept this, guys, then never vote for war, never go to war, simply stay away form it and run away from it, for if you do not accept it's grim, brutal nature, the only thing you can earn when going to war, is defeat, and/or more own losses than necessary. Which to accept is irresponsible and mean towards those you command to risk their lives in your army.

The soldiers in this case acted stupid, more in that they took pictures than in the deed itself. By that, they did not send the enemy a message. They started a recruiting program for him, and they made themselves looking like idiots. Having the generals and politicians and the president at home giving the order to stick heads on poles and line them up at the border to Pakistan - that would be sending a message. What these soldiers did, is just children's play and helping the enemy.

What makes war more brutal and barbaric, is good. It makes it less likely and makes people hesitent to be in favour of it. And in case of a war being there nevertheless, it increases the chance to destroy the enemy and claim victory. What makes war appearing civilised and less inhumane, increases the likelihood and acceptability, and it weakens your war effort, and makes you embrace foul compromises.

TLAM,
good quote, I had it on mind myself, too.

TBH as much as I thought the incident was tasteless and insensitive (assuming the film is real) I can't help thinking each and every one of us would have to have an identical experience before we could definitively say what we would have done given an identical set of circumstances.

Nothing wrong with having an opinion or a viewpoint though...this is the internet after all.