How do squatters deserve a state? It's like them moving to Greece and expecting you to give up some of your own land.

Yeah, that's exactly what it's like.

August - I was thinking about desalination for the water problem. I wonder about how much energy that would use and cost relative to the benefit of oil extraction, which shale already makes quite expensive. it may work out.

Actually...as soon as they move from dysfunctional to functional behavior.
You worry about Palestine more than Palestinians themselves.

well they could build new settlements around the dead sea and just send desalinated water down with a huge syphon

That would dry the ''sea'' and kill the tourism around it.

Maybe the Dutch have the answer, windmills to pump water from the coast to inland

they would desalinate mediterranean water, and syphon it down.:know:

No, they'd syphon it UP :know:

Be fair, there was always a fairly sizable Jewish population in the region, they are not all immigrants.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...2ShKJ962q0gYag

All Israeli Jews care a lot about your opinion and historical perspective.
Lest be fair-some do.

My understanding is that previous Jewish state was defeated and conquered by Roman Republic in 63 BC. Its successor Roman Empire made its best to destroy anything left of Judea in 1st and 2nd centuries anno domini.

Depending how you want to count there wasn't Jewish state in around 1800-2000 years (rounded numbers), next being modern Israel from 1948. After the Roman time it have been just part of various empires or countries.

Please correct me if I'm wrong somewhere (I'm not perfect) and tell me how Jewish people have more valid claim to Palestine (one name among others) than people now referred to as Palestinians?

people arrived with weapons and made it so.

it is the same way that the:

hebrews took over the land from the cannanites
the egyptians took over from the hebrews
the babylonians from the egyptians
the persians from the babylonians
the greeks from the persians
the romans from the greeks
the arabs from the romans
the crusaders from the arabs
the turks from the crusaders
the british from the turks
the jews from the british (who were departing anyway)

why the tears? the big question is who's next? or is it like full circle now and we can expect the egyptians again? - they'd like to think so, i'm sure

and just in case you think it's special in that part of the world, it's how america became the usa, how siberia became russian, how england became english, how hungary became hungarian..and if you look far enough back, how pretty much everywhere became what it is.

At least the jews have SOME claim in religious texts acknowledged by all peoples in the area, and even any claim at all is more than most invaders in this world have or had.

Furthermore upon the founding of Israel, even though an event driven by european jews, shortly afterwards the middle-eastern and north african jews emigrated in large numbers to isreal. effectively all the old jewish centers in the middle-east are empty now, with most of the former ME jewish population living in isreal. (egypt simply expelled ALL the jews after the 6-day war - a move that has not been associated with much international rending of hair and gnashing of teeth)

so one could say it hasn't been an invasion, but a reshuffle. But when certain individuals in the middle east fantasize about sending the jews of israel back to where they came from, i somehow doubt that they have in mind sending them back to live in Teheran, Baghdad, Cairo and other cities in the Muslim world.

But perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps they wouldn't mind, and think it right that jews get to live or die by the will of the muslim majority.

Anyway...on a lighter note, a quotation from an Israeli that i like (i'm remembering it the best i can):

" The problem the Europeans have with Israel is that they dreamed of having a new European state in the Middle East, but what they got was a new Middle Eastern state in the Middle East"

I could have sworn that the US, France and South America were the primary destinations for the former middle eastern populations, with the exception of the Morrocans and Iraqi in the 1950s who mainly went to Israel.

Did they?
CAPS LOCK strikes again.

Here we go again....
There wasn't Jewish state for 2000 years blah blah blah....Still there are Jewish people.
From my perspective there is no difference between 2000 years and 20 years
Jews had been hunted all over Europe including modern "civilised" history.
Return to land of Israel was always Jewish dream which seriously began with mostly secular Zionist movement.

Do palestinians deserve their own state?
Facts on the ground are as such that Jews and Palestinians need to compromise.
Question is what is the nature of compromise and if compromise will end the conflict.
Abu mazen talk about settlements because it sounds right for his cause.
At the same time PA official put out statement that Palestinian state must be Jews free while they argue about returning millions of Palestinian refugees into Israel.
Thing is that when you ask politically involved Palestinian about peace process he will tell you that two state solution is just a temporary step toward whole Palestine.
Creating Palestinian state just to win some sympathy of a Fin or Swed is the easy part question is if this will end the conflict.
Question is what will happen when Abu Mazen is gone and West bank will become terrorist habitat for continuation of struggle against Zionist.
Will UN back Israelis killing women and children when missiles from west bank fall on Tel Aviv?

You would have sworn.:har: