SH5 rules. :woot:[/QUOTE]

This is a typo, he meant SH3:O:

What is the IRAI mod? Is it included in the MegaMod?

yes, its included in TDW's Magnum Opus.

Good point. On the othe hand IABL raises honest points, and you answered with honest counterpoints, which is refreshing in this web world of "Mine rulez, yours sux!"

I would, however, like to address what I've seen so far of both sides.

This is good news. SH1 allowed the player to begin a career in any month of the war. No sim before or since has matched that, though SH3 does so with a mod, and I'm hoping SH5 will someday.

On the other hand this sim isn't titled SH:Type VII. That said, I fully understand and support their choice. I disagree with it, but I understand and support it.

On the other hand, for the person who likes to play in the Type II or Type IX, SH5 has nothing to offer at all, so it's easy to understand why that person might prefer the older game. It's also easy to understand why that player may find SH5 to be disappointing, despite all the improvements someone who plays it can point to.

Also true. On the other hand that was one of the improvements asked for and promised. SH5 is full of "improvements" that aren't quite realized or finished. The biggest disappointment seems to be the flaws left over from previous versions that should have been fixed, but are still there.

In SH3, you are ordered to navigate to a point in the ocean, orbit around it for 48 hours, after which you are free to ge anywhere in the world, something which never happened in real life.[/quote]
Actually it's only 24 hours. I've explained many times why that is, but the bottom line is you're right, it shouldn't be that way.

On the other hand no u-boat kaleun was ever tasked to sink a set amount of tonnage in any time-frame.

No, it's just bad in a different way. :O:

Not really. The immersion IABL spoke of there involved what happened between patrols.

Watching your severely limited crew walk about (though there is a mod in the works to fix that)? Have the same conversation over and over and over? Boost morale by feeding them properly?

In SH3 you can check the 3D dials as well.

All too true.

Have you ever played AOTD?

I skipped the rest of your points for the simple reason that they're all valid and all true.

It shouldn't be about winning or losing. The fact is that people who love SH5 have very good reasons for doing so. The other fact is that people who dislike SH5 have very good reasons for doing so, and that shouldn't be. It's true that some of the people who praise SH3 have devolved to the level of fanboys, but it's also true that some of the people who praise SH5 are no different. And it's true that some of the people who stick with SH3 simply want the things that SH5 still doesn't offer.

Not quite yet, but it should and it probably will.

I'll just preface my response in saying that my previous post was based on having acutally tried some of the latest mods for this game. So some of the arguments you have, i'm going to go ahead and cross off your list now.


here goes:

Now extended to 45 I believe.

No argument there. Ive always been partial to type 9's.

And SH3 has these? *cough*

You'd have to elaborate there. Thats vauge to me.

Unrealistic goals are adjustable, and probably already have. You know, i have to ask, has it ever occured to anyone your not supposed to reach 200,000 tons or whatever it is? That's what Germany would need to win that scenario. It's always been my sneaky suspicion that by lowering the goals, you alter the scenario where Germany always wins. It's not supposed to win!

Not Das boot enough for you? Really? The das boot experience is all uboat fans ramble on about. Here you have a game, an entire game based after Das Boot, whats not to like?

Pretty sure thats fixed. TDW's done alot of work on that, at the script level. Not just hacking sensors like you are I would have done.

THAT is most definatly fixed. TDW's UI, IMO, is better then 3 or 4. Its just different. If your stuck in the past, and expect things to be specific ways, then i guess everything will appear awkward to you.

Everybody who's partial to one SH game, always says the other ones look cartoonish.

No argument there.


Look, its not my intention to sit here and defend Sh5. I'm not even playing it, i don't even have it installed right now. BUT, i DID try it, WITH the latest mods (TDW mega mod beta). I think all im really saying, (and this is probably because i've done alot of modding myself), is to not knock the game until you've tried it with the latest mods. Given the amount and type of work done on the game, I think it's way past the time to evaluate the game at its vanilla value.

Aside from that, If you'll recall, SH3 sucked balls in its first couple years too. Everyone seems to forget that. Only there wasn't much to compare it to at the time, so everything has now become rose tinted glasses with SH3.

Now if you'll excuse me, i have to get back to working on SH4.

Agreed. All these "my sim is better than your sim" arguments are getting a bit silly.

Whatever subsim a player enjoys playing IS the best one.

I have a 10 foot pole for touching things with. I also have an 11 foot pole for touching things I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole.

I wasn't starting a flame war. Let me start by saying I LOVE SH period. I love German Uboats. I love Naval Warefare.

Ok.. now that we got that out of the way, if you want to play SH3 because at this point it IS more polished and more complete then sh5, then by all means do so.

The biggest problem I have is the diehard SH3 crew keeps pointing at promises, and OUT of the box performance.. I know it was a while ago since you opened that fresh new box but trust me Sh3 was bugged up. Go ahead uninstall GWX.. go vanilla and run a patrol I'll wait....

Ok back? Yeah. Exactly. As for this Mine Are Better Then Yours talk... that wasn't at all what I was attempting to insight.. I'm annoyed that people are still wearing biohazard suits around Sh5 conversations like its got some sort of terrible virus. That is it.

:hmmm: he either needs big shoes or many shoes:D

Or a bigger pole?

:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

Soda-spiller of the day! :rock:

I think maybe the problem with those two statements I highlighted though is the fact that they were promises as to out of the box performance.

And the fact that after 2 previous installations in which many bugs were brought to the attention of the developers (Ive seen it around that they frequent this website and know very well about the bugs) They still seem to never fix them and are content with pushing something out that isnt so much a simulation but a game wrapped with bells and whistles.

Granted, it can be anything from Ubi telling them to hurry up and not giving them enough timeframe, but you would think that after doing this twice before they would have known right off the bat what needs fixed and what doesnt based on the previous installment.

Not knocking Sh5 at all, just offering an opinion.

Although I havent bought sh5 yet, and probably wont, I too agree the captain having to run around is annoying, however, i feel they are heading in the right direction. Modelling the inside of the boat and making characters interactive is the future of gaming...especially in a submarine scenario...

The day they can make the other AI characters really really really good with voice recognition and i mean leaps and bounds better than we currently can do it will be a total blast to be captain!

IMHO it seems like the SH5 guys tend to pounce on anyone who likes SH3 better (like we are somehow stuck in the mud and dont know any better), I merely said, in my opinion, SH3 has better game play, and Iambl simply went into some more detail why that would be true. SailorSteve ended this post for my tastes and nicely summed up what needs to be said. Surely one can prefer SH3 over SH5, I never said anything negative about SH5. You guys have done a fantastic job with modding SH5, which i play, and im sure that trend will continue

:rock:

not to be a troll but how exactly DID starforce kill the disc drive??