Turkey is not europe in almost everything, and they shouldn't be so angry about that. They have their own identity, and if they want to preserve it, joining an EU that protects rights and freedom is obviosuly not their best bet. That said, I think that the EU should consider some kind of special treaty or status for countries that are not to be members of the EU, but could well trade in common. I.e., economical common space, but no allowing of free persons movement from Turkey to EU, etc. :hmmm:

That is already the case: Turkey, Israel, Marocco...

But it is made of countries that all have similiar cultural roots in common, regarding the ancient Greek heritage and the influence of Christian culture.

In a way we all are Romans.

To me Turkey is Middle East, period. And ME belongs to the orient. The Turkmen came from the northern area of Iran and Afghanistan. The Turkish lanmguage has nothing in common with any of the European languages. It does not share hisdoric roots with any Europoean country (expect in terms of attempted military conquests by the Ottomans), it does not share religion, and in fact Turkey/Ottoman Empire has been an enemy of Christianity and European nations.

I have my solution. That bit of Turkey which is in Europe can join. The rest cannot.

Welcome back Constantinople!

ROFL

If Turkey joining the EU, with the existing problems, then it is surely time to move to another country, enlargement of the EU has already gone too fast...

The North Atlantic Treaty Organization has something similar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO#Co...-member_states

well any country who starts blocking internet sites because it insulted its leader is no country i'd ever want to see in the EU. Sorry turkey, i know you want into the EU for a number of reasons, but you'd have to clean up your act.

I won't go into details why Turkish membership would not work, even if they managed to fulfil all the criteria which are currently demanded during the EU enlargement process. What needs to be mentioned is that Turkey already has a customs union with us, meaning that there are no internal tariffs and all external ones are unified. Now, I may be willing to go as far as to allow Turkey to enter the European Economic Area, also known as the EU by telephone, meaning that the countries accept the rules of the common market, but have extremely limited say in how things are done. I realise that 4 freedoms might be a lot to swallow, but let us not forget that Erdogan thinks that Turkey will revitalise Europe. Well, let us open our market to them. Then we shall see how many Turks come running in. The Eastern Europeans are already coming back home, I doubt that in the long run, Turkey will be revitalising anything.

Our market already is open to them, Respenus. We already have given them special status, economically. What Erdoighan claims about Turkish membership and how Europe would benefit fromt hat, must be seen in the light of his suual lies, megalomania and propaganda. He will tell you everything to make you think it is nice to have Turkey aboard.

And in germany, we have had most guest workers from mother coun tries after some time returning again indeed, since the late 50s. The only ones who stayed in full strength - are the Turks.

To me it sounds like a harsh ignorration of reality what you say. In principle you say: let'S believe Erdoghan becasue he is Erdoghan, let's get the damage done despite better knowledge about the meger chances, and when damage then finlly has come, then <not explained>.

If you like to take riskjs against all chances, take your own money and carry it into the casino. Play at your own cost - but don't play with the interest of 480 million people and their economies and cultural history. It's already bad enough that the EU already is doing this - and struggles desperately to even come to terms with just what it already has caused in damages.

Let me restate once and for all that I believe Erdogan as much as I would believe a convicted fraudster and a liar, non can ever again be trusted. If you read my post carefully, you will see that I newer mentioned allowing them integration into EU structures, I even go as far as to say that I am openly and explicitly against it. The one concession that I did make and which you misunderstood is that we allow Turkey to enter the EEA, since they are so willing to enter the common market. Even if that were to happen, Turkey would need to fulfil a large set of requirements, even for the economic freedoms to happen. Yet and this is important, they would NOT HAVE access to the institutions as such and present their interests outside normal diplomatic relations. If they want the market, I say welcome them, after they enacted the appropriate reforms, which would take a long time and would force them also to change their society, but the freedom of movement of goods, capital and services do not present any problems. I concede that the free movement of individuals might be a problem, but they would not join the Schengen group and their citizens would still need to respond to the limitations imposed on any other EU citizen. This way, Erdogan gets the economic integration he wants and the Turks, especially younger people get greater possibilities to study in the West and well, learn. While we cannot force them to accept our values, previous experience has shown that free-er travel to the West does enable the democratisation of societies.

Again, I consider every word uttered by Turkish representatives to be mere propaganda (welcome to diplomacy) and I do not support Turkish entry into the EU. I am more then open to the discussion about the economic consequences of the Turkish entry into the common market with you or anyone, should they wish to do so.

Eh, I'd not be so focused on the geographical aspects of any country joining, neither on religious ones. I'd have no problem with Turkey joining on these grounds, neither would I object to Canada, Russia or African countries in general.

Arguably Islam has the incorporates some of the same greek roots as Christianity, much of our science is based on islam, which in return is based on greek philosophy. Heck, even our number system is based on arabian origins.

In this regard it is also interesting that the Chinese regard the European and near eastern cultural areas as union from a historical/cultural perspective. (the same way most germans can't stand Bavaria but foreigners only see Germany)

But I am taking this from a broader perspective, not from a daily political one, where Hungary, for examples, kicks all European values in the nuts currently without many people actually being bothered. So much for the advantages of having a christian club. And Northern Ireland does not make for a better example and do not let me get started on the 30 years war.

So there is a bit of hypocrisies in the treatment of Turkey, too.

In my mind the only real attribute that is a "must", when it comes to countries joining Europe, is an adherence to the values of enlightenment. That one is much much more important to western culture, in regards to political conduct, to science and respect for humanity then any christian/judeo tradition with it's history of book burning, pogroms, crusades, general oppression, witch burning and so on. A tradition that is much closer to today's reputation of current Islam then modern Europe should adhere too. Luckily christianity got pushed back to privacy in most parts of Europe, retaining only the better aspects of it.

On these grounds, and there I agree, Turkey, Russia and other countries that are in talks about joining the EU are not ready for that. And within the EU there must be some better ability to screen and punish countries like Hungary if they want to stay in. If they want to leave for having authoritarian regimes, then they are free to do so.

And to clean up, I think they are not capable of doing and have either no interest in it, no Turkey in EU, :nope:

To be added to my critical statement on Islamic fundamentalism and freedom being given to it: the leading Tunisian fundamentalist leader is reported to have come back to Tunisia today after 20 years of exile:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12318824