its just the pics
we can see that Iran is actually westernizing

You don't understand me entirely correctly it seems. I don't advocate sending all Turks back. What I'm talking about is sending those Turks back that do not want to obey the rules of *our* society. You live in Germany, you speak German. You live in Germany, you behave as a German. Simple as that.

I do realize this is hardly doable and not a solution.
Something that might be a solution is being harsher to immigrants that do not want to adept themselves. For example, at least here in the Netherlands pretty much every official information leaflet is written in Dutch, Turkish and Arabic, and often in Papiamento as well. This really needs to stop. If they can't read it, they should take lessons. We should force them to assimilate into our culture, not assimilate ourselves into theirs.

Me too. I know just as well what I'm talking about as you do.

Agree with you here. Nowadays youth usually under the influence of (c)rap music tries to adopt immigrant cultures.

Exactly! So if you want to have sharia law, go find work somewhere else. If you come to Germany to work, you're there as a guest and you should behave as such (it's called "guest worker" for a reason).

You probably look less stereotypically German because of this. But again, not every German looks the same as any other German. As you say, your family has lived in Germany for many generations and from the sounds of it you have perfectly adopted German culture. It would be wrong not to call you German.

Myself, I'm a Dutchman, but I prefer to see myself as a Franconian. My family comes from the border area of the historical Franconian and Saxon tribes. I'm probably for the largest part Franconian (Chamavian/Salian), but definitely with large Saxon influences.
That said, there is no such thing as "pure blood". There have always been influences from outside the Germanic territory. One big example is Attila the Hun who brought Asian blood into Europe through his conquests.

Germanic history, religion and culture is one of my hobbies so if there's anyone you shouldn't need to tell this it's me:DL

:up:

Ok! I understand!

Iran has been trying to westernize since before the Revolution. I don't think anything in those pictures is anything new.

@DarkFish
3rd generation Turks, in Germany, can't be considered "guests" anymore. You can't send them "home". They are there already.
And there are other ways to "analyze" the problem. Let's assume, for a moment, that there was no "West/Islam conflict". Communication skills (or lack of) of said group would (should) be addressed via the education system/ social programs etc. Nobody would suggest, at least officially, to throw out of Germany, German citizens because they talk "funny".

:hmmm:

.

QFT, thank you. If we would start "throwing out" people who can't speak, read and write proper German, we would have to throw out roughly 40% of the population in my estimate. If we include punctuation - 80%.

Also, what is this "behave as a German" bullcrap I'm reading? How does "a German" "behave", and do you (DarkFish) decide it, or do we need some official department for it? Last time I checked, this land was supposed to be free. And yes, that also includes freedom of religion. Freedom is always the freedom of the other. It is for ALL the people, EQUALLY, otherwise you DON'T HAVE IT. All that should matter is that people uphold the law. You have no business to decide who goes and who stays based on how they "behave", as long as they don't break the law.

The real problem is that too often courts of justice are making excuses and giving quarters to criminals because they take their "cultural background" or some such into account. They are thereby promoting a condition in which some people, based on their heritage / community, feel less bound to the law than others, which is fatal. All people should be equal under the law, and the penalty should be more based on what they did as a crime, not where they come from or who their friends are.

In addition, "throwing money at the problem" should stop immediately, too. It is far too easy in general in Germany to obtain social welfare money. A lot of people - that includes actual Germans, but the number is obviously disproportional in immigrant groups - have willingly settled or foolishly maneuvered themselves into a position where they are irrelevant for the job market and live from the tits of the welfare state. At the same time, many of those are working in clandestine employment, maximising the ripp off. There are whole family businesses working like that. This needs to stop.

And last but not least, I think our immigration laws are far too lax. We should look much more closely at WHO wants to come here, WHY and HOW they plan to support themselves once here. It should be a lot more in their own responsibility to be successfull here than that of the state. You would naturally cater to those more constructive individuals by adhering to what I wrote above: Stop throwing money at the problem.

Which sort of German must they speak? Does that mean they can kick out all the Germans who don't use Standard?
Behave like a German? Invade Poland?:03:
What on earth does a german behave like. One of the german people in this topic contributing his usual nonsenseical rants about demographics has often written about german behavior which many would describe as typical german behavior but he as a german has written about how he hates that typical german behavior.
Simple as that????????

Surely every official leaflet should be available in every officially recognised language in the country, which means they should all be available in Papiamento as well as several other languages of the Netherlands.
Plus of course since there is supposed to be free movement and free trade in Europe the official leaflets really should be available in every oficially recognised language in the EU.

It's not so much that Germans wrestle with multiculturalism, as long as it is clear that Germany is German and does not get abolsihed itself. But right this is the goal of some political factions, namely the left and the Greens. They hate Germany for being there, and want to delete it in princ iple. Everything foreign is better to them, than Germany. I personally would sack their citizenships and kick them out with a free ride to one of thosxe foriegn countries they admire so much more than their own home that is paying and feeding and nursing them. Some quotes, German originals and then the translation:

Jürgen Trittin, head of the Greens :
"Deutschland verschwindet immer mehr, und das finde ich schön"
Germany vanishes more and more, and I find that beautiful.

Claudia Roth, vice-head of the Greens:
"Deutsche sind Nichtmigranten, mehr nicht!"
German are non-migrants - nothing more.

Joschka Fischer , former foreign ministre and former head of the Greens:
„Deutschland muß von außen eingehegt, und innen durch Zustrom heterogenisiert, quasi „verdünnt“ werden.“
Germany must be contained from the outside, and must be made more heterogen by migration, it must be thinned out.

And now my two favourites which tell all you need to know about these sickos:

Green party'S leadership in a common explanation :
"Es geht nicht um Recht oder Unrecht in der Einwanderungsdebatte, uns geht es zuerst um die Zurückdrängung des deutschen Bevölkerungsanteils in diesem Land."
In the immigration debate, it is not about justice or injustice, but first for us it is about pushing back the German population share in this country.

Daniel Cohn-Bendit, left Green in the EU parliament:
"Wir, die Grünen, müssen dafür sorgen, so viele Ausländer wie möglich nach Deutschland zu holen. Wenn sie in Deutschland sind, müssen wir für ihr Wahlrecht kämpfen. Wenn wir das erreicht haben, werden wir den Stimmenanteil haben, den wir brauchen, um diese Republik zu verändern. "
We, the Greens, must make sure that as many foreigners come to Germany as possible. When they are in Germany, we must fight for their voting right. When we have reached that, then we wilkl have the share in votes that we need to change this republic.

Cem Özdemir, Turkish vice-head of the Greens:
„Der deutsche Nachwuchs heißt jetzt Mustafa, Giovanni und Ali!”
The German offsprings now are named Mustafa, Giovanni, and Ali.

This breed makes me sick. To imagine that these really are sitting in the German parliament, working for the deletion of Germany, makes me even sicker. This party, and many other left politicians, HATE Germany for being there, and everything and everyone that/who is not Germany, to them is better than Germany. They should give back their citizenship and piss off, really. They tell the Germans how wonderful it is to live as a German in a foreign nheighbourhood - but most of themselves live in houses and villas in noble and expensive city districts far away from these foreign neighbvourhoods and drive in huge limousines. Traitors to their country and destroyers they are.

@Skybird
Strangely enough one doesn't hear anything about those statements in the "normal" media like daily newspapers or the Tagesschau...:doh:

But if you ask them, many of them tell you that they do not wish to be Germans either. So what are they? They are surely none of us Germans, and they actively refuse integration. What they want is to change Germany so that it becomes like the country their forefathers came from in the 50s and 60s. They want it to become Islamic, and Turkish nationslistic, and ultra-orthodox patriarchalic.

So when the analysis does not produce the results you want, you switch to other methods for so long until one does?

Why? It is an integral part of the problem. There are three main problems: The Islamic nature of their home culture, the fetishist macho-culture of Turkish males, and the strong patriachalic family structures that does a lot of damage to psychological health of families and their internal structures. Social workers working with Turkish families will confirm what I say. Since dec ades they time and again run into the same problems, and mostly they do not get through.

Do you really think we have not tried that in the past 40 years? As I said above, the refusal of integration is something that is intentional in case of many Turks. There are also others that try to integrate, yes, and they care for their kids going to school and learning the language and gettiong jobs. But these are not typical, but a minority. Finally, Erdoghan the Great doe snot hide that for him migration is a weapon to succeed where the siege at Vienna failed, and his foreign minister or relgious minsitre, I forgot which of the two it was, explicitly said that with that reference himself. And erdoghan on visit in Cologne two years ago called for Turkls resisting integration and that they shoulds stay loyal to their Turkish identity and that it is a crime against humanity that they should be expected to learn the language, and integrate.

It'S not just about taliing funny. As I said on page one, an identity is n ot a stamp in an official document, but it is a feeling and love that has grown over time and that has its roots ijn the past and in the traditions that have influenced one'S own education and raise. Many Turks lack this, and do not see the legitimity of the demand that they must adopt to the circumnstance sin Germany and cannot stay lioked they are, just as if they still were in Turkey. They have to adapt to us, not we to them. The migrant has to chnage himself in order to live in the foreign society, that is called migration. If he is demanding the society to chnage according to his identity because he does not wish to chnage himself, then it is not migration, but colonialism.

So, I say there are quite many Turks that I would not mind to kick out of Germany. Not all, but a majhority of them. They pose nothing but problems to us, they are overrepresented in statistics on failing integration, failiung school aducation, fialing in jobs and employment, and crime, and many get more social wellfare and benefits than they ever pay back in taxes. This is the form of migration that in no way is a contribution and win for Germany, but is a hole without bottom, becasue statistically they have far more children than the quoted 2.1 per woman, which means they share of the overall population grows, while the share of netto payers in general declines. Now do the maths. They cost much more money than they contribute to public finances in any form.

And just btw: why is it necessary to give them special programs and special status, to make them learn the language, to make them integrate and to get education? No other migration group gives us such problems, not to mention crime. It'S always, always, people from Muslim countries, and thus dominantly Turks, Albanians, Afghans, Lebanese, Maroccans. The noticable exception are the Iranian communities, because many of them in Germany fled from the regime and represent the well-educated "Bildungsbürgertum" that also exists in Iran, being more influenced by Western culture and education than other population groups or Muslims nationalities. - But we do not have püroblems with Chjinese. Japanese. Koreans. Not with Spanish, South Africans, Indians. Not with Argentinians, Candians, Americans. Not with Australians, Russians, Poles. Not with Swerdes, Danes or Dutch. Notz with English, French or Italians.

It'S always the Muslims. It sounds like a parole or a sterteotype, but it is true. And what have thery all in common? Two things. Patriarchalic social structures at home, and Islam (which also foisters a strong patriarchalism).
So - can we agree that Islam and patriachalism obviously pose a problem here - or do you wish to change analysis mode until you get a result that is softer on the grim truth and hides it any better?

Thilo Sarrazin: Ich muss niemanden anerkennen, der vom Staat lebt, diesen Staat ablehnt, für die Ausbildung seiner Kinder nicht vernünftig sorgt und ständig neue kleine Kopftuchmädchen produziert.
(I must not recognise anybody who lives by the state, but rejects this state, does not reasonably care for the education of his children, and constantly produces more new little headscarf-girls.)

Well, it is en vogue to tolerate the abandoning of German culture. For the left, German hsitory started in 1933 and ended in 1945. The nine millennias before do not exist to them,. nor do German arts, literature, philosophy, sc inece and the tremendous heritage they gave to the global treasure chest of culture and progress. They are pathologically fixiated on these 12 years and now want to spend the rest of their lives with demonstrating to the world that they indeed think it was not good what happened back then.

As if the world cares that much for what they think.

What i'm trying to say is, while the immigrants from the middle east are not adapting to western culture, the middle east itself is.

Maybe future immigrants will have no trouble adapting to the west except that they speak a different language

And this complaint is someone who hates Germany and says he has no loyalty to Germany:rotfl2:
Once again the very mentaly mixed up skybird is so confused with so many things to hate that he condemns the very things he praises.

Does that sound like the Turkey of their fathers?:har::har::har::har:

Unless of course its the jews the negroes the chinese the poles the catholics or the protestants.
Hey you recently complained about blacks and muslims didn't you so clearly it isn't always muslims as you showed yourself to be a small minded bigot on several levels:down:
Bigots will always find some group to complain about, and amazingly bigots will always ignore reality and repeat the same old lies again and again no matter how often they are shown to be nothing but crazy ignorant bigotry spouted from a confused scared small minded person.

See see the all around liberal loving europeans face same problems as we Isralis do.
I find it rather funny twist of fate now seening ex nazi partys growing in popularity in germany and sweeden(the most liberal countries)becouse of flood of muslims .
Another reality check.

What?
Too many Russians, Ethiopians or Haredi?