Very well worded mookie!!

I wish my english was good enough to express myself as good as you did. :-?

No, it's not. Not even close. Were you here for the 'Mod Wars'? That was a corker, but it died down and so will this eventually.

@ Mookie: What exactly do you think should be done. People are cheering your talk, but what is the real answer? Absolutly forbidding any dissent? Where would you draw the line?

Yep there is the problem. I think the mods have done a brilliant job all things considered. I also agree that it is dying down to some extent, the patch brought a new wave of it - that's all.

Give it time.

That's a problem, but...

It's not about dissent from those who tried the game and been disappointed, it's about those who did not try it and come every day posting crap since when? ...3 months now.

Fortunately, only few of them are still remaining.


And he's absolutely right when he says:

----

Edit:

You did not try the game Steve, and it's not the problem, why? simply because you don't flood this forum with crap everyday.

Well, there's the rub. I don't have the magical cure-all answer. As I stated, dissent is fine. There's always going to be people on either side of an idea. But I'd like to see things held to a higher standard of discourse. That's what I feel is lacking. And maybe its because in the past, there was no need to have a moderator step in to make sure that happened....things were self policing. People knew what was expected and acted accordingly. Here it seems like a free for all - people have very strong emotions on both sides of the line and I understand that can bring out the worst in people, but it seems like literate and worthwhile discussion has suffered as a result.

So I don't know what the answer is. Is it slap people on the wrist for every little post that doesn't meet some standard of quality? No, of course not. It is delete every post that doesn't toe some imaginary Subsim party line? Again, no of course not. But I think that some of the more habitual trolls and people that contribute nothing of substance should be told to shape up or move on.

You may be right. I don't have the answers either. I hope Neal does.

yer righteous youth my youth.. bombaclott!!!

I have spent the past couple of weeks reading through thread after thread and post after post about SH5, trying to decide whether to buy it or not. What i got from it was this:

• People are not happy with the initial state of SH5 - Well tbh no one was happy with the initial release of SH3 or SH4 either and it took a couple of patches, plus a LOT of modding for each to be as fun as they are now. The modders in particular have made the games what they are today. GWX, RFB, TMO, RSRD, OM to name just a few in the huge collection of amazing mods which have shaped the games into anything you want them to be.
  

• No one likes the DRM - While i tend to agree with hating the DRM, it's clearly stated on pretty much every site which sells the game what the DRM incudes and the fact that you require a constant net connection. Personally I would like to see this altered or removed, but hey.. they have to protect their product somehow (although their choice severely limits their consumer scope to those with permanent connections)

• General spam/Hate posts - Everyone has an opinion and from what I gather from my short time on this forum, everyone is allowed to express that opinion openly (which is amazing and rare). However, reading the same thing line for line after 10 posts in a row, generally makes me want to stop reading the thread. This will also go the same for any Ubisoft community liason I would assume.

After all this, I still ordered the game. Why did I order it? For the same reason I ordered SH3 and SH4 when the same pattern was happening during the initial months of release. I knew that with all of the modding support from the amazing guys on these forums, the games would be improved no end and made more than playable in time.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not defending Ubisoft. From what I gather, this is the worst release to date. They should be ashamed of themselves for letting a product which they put their names on be released in such a poor state of finish. I just cant see the point in people arguing with each other on forums about it. What Ubisoft will more likely respond to is a calm, collected and structured argument from the people who pay their wages (Us). A rabble of "this sux" and "you should all be sacked" isn't going to make them want to interact with the community.

Anyhow, thats my pennies worth. Agree with it or disagree with it, it doesn't really matter. What matters is that people realise that the fix wont be over night. Ubisoft arent going to pull a glowing white rabbit out of a hat and please everyone. I have my fingers crossed that they fix the major un-moddable problems, then give the modding community a stable platform to work from and let them work their magic as they have done many times before.

We paid for a finished game and we got a beta release. Is like, I paid for a luxury holiday in Hawaii and I end up in a tent in Somalia. Of course, I can say.. hey, what the heck.. at least I'm out of the town, right?

Because of this kind of mentality, the quality of the services, products are day by day lower and we pay more money for less quality. And sad is that there is many people like the OP who actually encourage the thief's to continue robbing.

But I agree with one thing, there is way to much complaining from people who don't own and play the game. These people are complaining more than we do, which is weird. Those who play the pirated game or even mention about it, got banned right away, but those who don't own the game and are just complaining about it for months.. they are fine. If we open a thread to discuss a bug or something, right away the thread will be taken over by those who don't own the game and everything will end up in a flame with the never ending 'drm sux, sh3 rox' and so on. This is not right :nope:

I fully agree magnum. We have paid for the game. It should be complete and working, not in an alpha or beta stage. I think the point i was trying to make is that ... "its hard to find an icecube in a hailstorm".

Might be an idea for the stickied bugs thread to have its 1st post updated with a formatted list of valid issues to be fixed by Ubisoft. That way anyone coming from the outside in, can read the communities findings in 1 simple to read place, without having to sift through the "i hate you Ubisoft" posts. Just a thought. ;)

Exactly, both posts. From Bleh's point, how can we hope to help the company help us if all they see is the cacaphony of generic rants. From Magnum's point, how the heck can the community hope to communicate a clear line of problem solving between members if the lines are being drowned out by (again) generic rants.

I think as responsible members we can all help keep the threads toned down enough to open those lines of communication again, and perhaps even turn the SH5 section of Subsim back into a place the suits and devs would feel welcome in. This is one of the larger sim communities, isn't it? So, we need to eliminate the in-house battle lines and unify ourselves into a common voice.

I know, I'm rambling. :DL

krash *out*

Suggestion - moderators move complaining posts/threads into a new separate forum "Ubisoft complaints / feedback". SH5 bug reports can be moved into the existing bugs/glitches thread.

The policy would be the posts in this main SH5 forum should be directly of interest to those trying to get the most out of the sim, rather than indirectly by campaigning.

Bamzors

Not harsh at all.

I agree that it's sometimes a chore to read the posts on this site. To be honest, I became almost physically angry reading the stuff about the patch--it's like people absolutely are not happy unless they're slamming a group of developers for 'ruining their lives' or some other ridiculous overstatement.

Yes, many of us feel slighted. However, many of us also realize that SH5 is an absolutely FANTASTIC platform for future mod development. I, for one, have no qualms whatsoever about being an early adopter. We will have a fantastic sub sim when it's all said and done, and i applaud the efforts of the modding community around here.

Ubisoft...well, they can suck it. The devs, though...I respect them. They didn't choose to release an unfinished game, and I don't fault them one bit. Hell, nobody here can dispute that, even if they'd released a PERFECT product, that our mod team would immediately jump in and make it better.

I dunno...I guess I feel like people that come here to complain are just rattling the bars, because, honestly, people that some to subsim are gonna be the people to download and install the mods anyway.

Sorry for the rambling. I've had a few Sam Adams this evening. But seriously--the dev team is not your enemy. Enjoy SH5 for what it is now. Look forward to what it will be tomorrow. If you feel compelled to jump on to the site and tell everyone that the game has a couple of bugs, well, be aware that WE ALL KNOW ABOUT IT and your comments make no contribution to the common good.

Bravo to the devs for plugging away.

/My two cents.

//Reread. I contradict my own point. Awesome. :)

I agree. I like Subsim forums because the community is mostly mature, but sometimes the whining in this forum is getting unbearable.

Yep. I was reading the back-and-forth between several other members in the feedback thread a couple nights ago. Your sentiment is shared.

Naturally. :up:

Sam Adams is good beer. I might buy a case tomorrow night. :D


Yes it is getting tiresome.

I second that. At least a merged landfill if it would be easier. :DL