SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - [Done] AI planes dropping homing torpedoes by Peabody

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- - [Done] AI planes dropping homing torpedoes by Peabody (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=166163)

peabody

03-27-10 02:41 PM

Now for the bad news, it doesn't work.

For some reason on the initial testing I had a line of stationary ship in a north/south line. There were also two carriers steaming at 20 knot east to west.
The planes in the mission toward the North/south line of ships and dropped the torpedoes and the torpedoes hit the Carriers traveling east west about 1500 yards north of where the torps were dropped. This happened twice in two different test.
But apparently it was a fluck, I do not know why the torps turned and headed for the carriers but I have been unable to reproduce the event. In fact I can not even get a 'homing torpedo' on a plane.

What happened in the test is still a mystery.

Peabody

ETR3(SS)

03-27-10 03:08 PM

If I remember correctly there is a huge difference in the manner in which air dropped torpedoes work in 1.4 and 1.5. I believe in 1.4 when the torpedo was dropped it behaved like you would expect. However in 1.5 when the torpedo is released it immediately begins traveling quickly in the opposite direction of the dropping aircraft. I'll set up a mission to test this out to see if my memory serves me right and post the results here. This could help with your testing.

peabody

03-27-10 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS) (Post 1336827)

I have not had that happen (going in the opposite direction). I have been close to the plane and had it appear to go backwards. But if I stay a ways behind the plane, I found that what was happening is the plane is going at 120MPH and I have had the torpedo drop at the speed it is going to travel in the water, don't remember exactly but somewhere between 30-40 knots.

So it appears to go backwards. In other words it doesn't come off the plane like its should, traveling at the same speed as the plane.
But maybe what you have experienced is different, I appreciate any information you have.
It is a mystery why the torps hit the carriers. They were US planes and US carriers so they should not have been attacked.

But any testing data you have would be appreciated.

Peabody

keltos01

03-27-10 04:18 PM

In the test pictures I showed at the beginning of the thread, the torpedo dropped backwards, hit the water, then moved backwards and down deep (I followed it all the way) then started moving forward again, went up to torpedo depth (5 feet I believe) and went straight to the target.

in a pm, lurker_hlb3 told us :

Quote:

I too “cloned” the Torpedo_Air_US into a “Mk24” and took the 3d model of the “MK27” so it would appear as a real “MK24”, however even though you change the “type” in amun_AirTorpedo from “AIR” to “Mk27TorpUS” in the .sim file, the system still treated the weapon as a “straight” running non-homing torpedo.

All test showed that the “only” time you would every get hit is if you were on the surface going in a “straight” line at speed of 6 knots or less. If you were at “periscope” depth the torpedo would go right over the top of you and unlike a true home torpedo, it would not turn to re-engage me.

so we still have to work on the homing..

keltos

peabody

03-27-10 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keltos01 (Post 1336904)

So you must be seeing the same thing ETR3 is talking about. I haven't seen that, but I have only followed a couple torps "ALL the way".
Peabody

keltos01

03-27-10 04:57 PM

how can we make it so that more planes attack ? so as to stop better the way the torps behave (I'm no good at mission editing..)

also :

they would need to fly max at 120 mph at 250 feet for the drop, can that be set up ?

Quote:

Initially the torpedoes were set to search for a target at a depth of 50 feet (15 m), this was later changed to 150 feet (45 m). To prevent the torpedo accidentally attacking surface ships, it resumed its circling search if it rose above a depth of 40 feet (12 m). The torpedo's relatively low speed was kept secret since, while U-boats could not outrun the torpedo underwater, they could outrun it on the surface.

keltos

Quote:

The Bogue group arrived at Casablanca on 29 May, 1944. 15 June 1944 found Bogue at sea again, covering a convoy. On that day she was ordered to hunt for one German and one Japanese submarine about 850 miles west of the Cape Verdes. On the night of 23 June, Bogue Avenger pilot Lt. Commander Jesse Taylor picked up Japanese submarine I-52 on his malfunctioning radar (only the right half of its sweep was working).

Guided by sonobuoys, Taylor attacked again with a Mk 24 Fido, and heard an explosion and what he thought were noises of the submarine breaking up. However, Bogue's war diary states that, more than one hour after Taylor's attacks, two additional Avengers both heard the propeller beats of I-52. Lt. (jg) William Gordon dropped a Fido and, 18 minutes later, heard a long rolling explosion, break-up noises, and further propeller beats which quickly faded.

http://uboat.net/allies/ships/uss_bogue.htm

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/5665/fidox.jpg

keltos01

03-27-10 05:11 PM

The main weapons carry within the Navy were the TBF Avenger and PBY Catalina, which employed the weapon in lieu of and supporting depth charges. The first victim of the new weapon was U-467, sunk by a plane of VP-84 in the Atlantic, May 25th, 1943. Following her would be 31 boats, with another 15 damaged. (Numbers for the U.S. Atlantic Fleet only, no figures found for Pacific drops. Likely none were executed. Weapon is included for the sake of completeness and the possibility that it actually WAS used.).FIDO could be dropped at 125 knots from 250 feet. FIDO homed via four hydrophones and a simple steering mechanism pointing the torpedo toward the source of the noise.
Typical mission profiles included forcing the submarine to dive, then drop the torpedo onto its head.

http://www.microworks.net/PACIFIC/ar...24fido_air.htm

see also :

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTUS_WWII.htm

ETR3(SS)

03-27-10 05:11 PM

Ok I was able to replicate what I described earlier. It seems to be a problem that affects only the US Torpedo bomber (aka Helldiver), and is present in both 1.4 and 1.5. In both versions of the game the Japanese Kate performed as expected with their torpedoes. The Helldiver however when dropping its torpedo instead launches it back and up away from the mother aircraft. I witnessed the weapon skipping off the surface of the water several times before entering the water. At this point the weapon was still traveling backwards and after a short run of maybe 100yds the weapon proceeded to dive, reaching a 90º angle on its decent. I followed the weapon as far down as I could before it got too dark to see. Presumably at some point the weapons' astern motion was overcome and started moving forward and reached its run depth. Of 6 torpedoes dropped only 2 made it to the target.

The problem I believe lies in the Helldiver. Upon investigation I found that both aircraft use the same torpedo, so that can be ruled out as a possibilty. I then looked into each planes dat file and found immediate differences in the structure. The Kate has a node dedicated to just the torpedo, the US does not. This could be the reason for the odd torpedo behavior.

Now for something completely different! The torpedoes that you did drop. That behaved in precisely the manner the game told them. The "homing" torpedoes of the game use a passive homing system. If the target is not emitting any sound then the weapon will seek out the nearest target that is radiating sound. In this case the US carriers were the loudest sound. Another thing is the fact that the homing torpedoes can not change depth. The homing aspect of the weapon in game only controls the rudder.

keltos01

03-27-10 05:20 PM

so adding that node to the ATB could solve the problem ?

not changing depth is kindo ok as it would give us a fighting chance..

keltos

peabody

03-27-10 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS) (Post 1336980)

Now for something completely different! The torpedoes that you did drop. That behaved in precisely the manner the game told them. The "homing" torpedoes of the game use a passive homing system. If the target is not emitting any sound then the weapon will seek out the nearest target that is radiating sound. In this case the US carriers were the loudest sound. Another thing is the fact that the homing torpedoes can not change depth. The homing aspect of the weapon in game only controls the rudder.

The problem is it shouldn't have, simply because we have been unable to get a homing torpedo (acoustic) to work from a planes. In fact I moved the node which is inside to plane to the outside and there is no torp on it, unless it is an amun_AirTorpedo in the sim, set to Acoustic prevents it from showing. BUT the torps that hit the carriers had to come from the planes, since I was the only sub, and I did not fire any torps, there were no other ships or planes in the area other than the ones I put there to test and they were crossing south of me going east to west and the carriers were north of me.
The targets were all stationary and my sub was also, I only did the mission at first to be sure the planes would actually drop torpedoes. And when I started playing with settings I forgot to make something move, so the US Carriers were the only thing moving and BOOM.
So, basically that is the mystery why it worked that time and won't work any more.

Peabody

keltos01

03-28-10 02:16 AM

torpedo test v 1.1 by Peabody : Jyunsen B and Convoy

[IMG]file:///C:/DOKUME%7E1/Besitzer/LOKALE%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG]correct height for torpedo release this time on :

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/7996/atbtorp.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6089/atbk.jpg

keltos

keltos01

03-28-10 12:24 PM

test 2 -

keltos01

03-28-10 12:30 PM

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/8...mtorpcopyu.jpg

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/3346/homtorpcopy.jpg

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/3346/homtorpcopy.jpg

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/3346/homtorpcopy.jpg

got tracking on the newt attack !!!

actually saw the torp veer to port towards marchant !!!

I got hit too !!! sh*t was watching the merchies..

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/486/homtorpcopyi.jpg

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3346/homtorpcopy.jpg

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/3346/homtorpcopy.jpg

other plane drop :

torp seems tracking too !

booooom !!!!!

keltos01

01-26-11 02:43 PM

lurker made a mk24 fido for WDAD airdropped, will try it out

AOTD_MadMax

01-27-11 03:33 AM

Hi,

in FOTRS i also got some problems with the air-torpedoes.
It is important to place the torpedo outside the hull of the plane.
When you place the torps inside the hull ( Avenger got this in real ) the torpedoes went on ground when they was dropped.

Regards

Maddy

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