I guess I'm not understanding. But why all the AoB stuff if the torpedo I'm shooting is nothing more than a "straight run" torpedo? whether or not I'm in a good position or not does all that info being fed into the "T1-G7a" really matter? I don't understand subs at all....so please excuse me for not understanding the logic of it just yet.

The torpedo needs to lead the target, or else it will never result in a hit, allways falling behind. Even if the torpedo never changes direction after leaving the tube. Some angle between periscope view and torpedo direction is required. The torpedo takes time to move to the target, but the target also moves forward. Hence the need for lead angle. For that you need to know 3 things: torpedo speed, target speed, and target AOB. Luckily the game allready computes how much lead is required. The game knows about the torpedo speed, so you are left with providing a speed and AOB value. If the torpedo must change course (gyro angle) then range also becomes an issue because it has a straight section to move afterwhich it makes a curve. That causes a slight deviation on top of the lead angle.

Self searching acoustic torpedos may not need such precision, but early dumb torpedos certainly do need to be steered correctly. If you want better odds than a lottery ticked.

The logic is simple realy, but it might take looking at it in a spacific way to see it I guess. Puting the info into the TDC will tell you how much your torpido will have to turn to hit where ever your parascop, or UZO if that is what you are using. So if you put the speed and AOB of your intended target the TDC will tell you, if you have the scope on your target, how much your torpido will have to turn in order to strike the target.

You can use this to get the lead on your target if you are clever. Simply set your self up 90deg from the target's course and put your scope at 0deg relitive bering, set the AOB to 90(port or starbord depending on which side of the target ship you are on) and then enter the speed of the target. Then you switch the TDC back to automatic mode, so all the data you locked into it will be calculated. The result of this calculation will be a three didget number, the gyroangle, which is displayed right above the torpido tube selectors in the stock game. Now if you rotate your scope left or right until this gyroangle number reads all zeros you will then know where the target needs to be when you fire to get a hit with a straight runing torpido.

Heh....ok I think I'm coming to understand it. I understand lead cuz of WW-1, and WW-2 flight sims. But I guess I was just thinking of "leading" the target with me Mark 1 eyeballs.

So I guess for example in the "Fixed-wire method" posted earlier I'm getting it to calculate lead and then set my gyroangle to 000 to show where to fire...kinda like the LCOS on an F-15?

If the system you mention in the f-15 is what I think it is then yes, it is very much like that. Using the TDC in the same way you can also make strait runing shots from angles that aren't from 90deg AOB. Though generaly you want to be within 30deg of 90 for best effect, if you hit at too shalow an angle your torpido may well skip off the hull of the target. Another thing to keep in mind is that you don't necisarily need a gyroangle of 0, anything +/- 10 from 0 will do just as well; on the read out that would be anything from 350-10 with zero being between the two.

Well, the fixed wire method is really only about getting to know speed. What you do with it afterward is up to you. I usually use the result to set up my sprint-ahead maneuver, long before I start thinking about getting torpedos on steel. Maillemaker immediately set it into the target speed dial of the TDC to automatically let it compute the lead angle.

Sure you can judge lead by sight. But that requires some trial and error and luck to get a acceptable hit ratio. Or you could use the gizmos the germans built into the sub. I guess it depend on how much of a technology freak, knob-twister you are. You do get results quicker I think.

Everyone here has been so helpful. It seems to be a great community. I did read some of Wazoo's Manual Targeting Tutorial last night. Oh my...that's lots of stuff. I think for the moment I'll use the "Notebook" manual targeting with "Fixed Wire" thrown in at times to practice before I move onto the more complicated stuff.

I'm really interested in learning the plotting and all that comes with it. But with work, and family(we've got 3 girls) and all that it entails I don't have tons of time. I'm thinking first learn the basics using the notebook and some fixed wire so I can get out there and have fun learning the strategy and how to FIND targets. Then once proficient I'll add all the neat plotting tools. I dunno. We'll see. :) Thanx so much to everyone for being so helpful. I think I can see why subsims can be so addictive.

I wish now that I'd bought the bundle pack with SHIV as well. I didn't because my system is only:

Athlon 64 3700 @ 2.4ghz
1.5mb RAM
GeForce 6800 GS

So I didn't think it would work well with SHIV. Although it is interesting to me as the Pacific Theatre sounds neat. I'm also not sure about the U-Boat stuff being with Nazi-Germany. Hmmmmm....I try not to think about it too much.

Dangerous Waters also sounds interesting at some point for a different experience. I might want to get them while my lovely wife is letting me spend the money. :)

Ok scratch what I said. I just tried using Wazoo's great tutorial a few times as well as Dantenoc's tutorial. I think I'm starting to get a better feel for the manual targeting and plotting. Currently I still have the "God's Eye" view turned on...but am still at 87& realism. But I did also try it without the "God's Eye" views and plotted that way. I liked them both but think I'll stick with the view on for now.

Either way this is great stuff and very addicting. Its amazing how much time can pass by just working out the intercepts, and then waiting for that moment. Thanx again to everyone for your help and encouragement.

Bah, turn those map contacts off right now, LOL. :D It's not that bad. If on the surface, ask the watch (if it's the nearest one you want). If submerged, get a range and bearing, and put an X there! :yeah:

I would recommend stepping up realism GRADUALLY. Throwing someone into a lake is not a good way of teaching them to swim.

Keeping map contacts, event camera, and external free cam (god eye) is perfectly acceptable if you're practicing attacks and studying enemy behavior. Without these things enabled, it's hard to know if your tactics are working as intended.

Often times, it's extremely hard to tell if your torpedo hit or missed, where or by how much. The slightest manual calculation error may easily waste 25,000 Reichsmarks. ;)

When I was starting out, I was intrigued by the way destroyers comb the area for my sub, especially in pairs. They do this 'figure 8' and take turns depth-charging/listening. That knowledge helped me paint a mental picture of what's going on topside. Without it, I'd have been blind underwater.

More experience will bring a better grasp of the tactical situation, at which point these 'helper features' will just reduce fun and suspense.

I've been playing at max realism for a long time now, but still keep event cam on. I'm always interested to see if I hit the part of the ship I was aiming for. And there's always room for improvement.

Good hunting. :salute:

When I started, the only things I used were Map Contacts, and Weapons Officer Assist.
I didn't take long to get rid of the Map Contacts, but loosing Weapons Officer Assist was the final, and biggest step for me. He realy is a guy one can lean on, even for safe navigation around friendly ports. ("He's X far away, doing Y knots, and has an AOB of Z.")

How fast, and far, one wishes to progress can be a very personal thing.
Positive encouragement can certainly be a good thing, as sometimes people don't realize how well they're doing, or how little some of these realism features effect difficuty.

You'll have to really turn down some of the details on SHIV - I think overall with those specs, you will have a better experience with SHIII. (I played SHIV on specs originally similar to those, but it really didn't begin to grow on me until the new PC). However I should mention that SHIV now has a fantastic mod called Operation Monsun which is up there with the best of modded SHIII's features and has a full German campaign implemented. The bonus there being great graphics, the biggest minus being lack of SHIII Commander. So in SHIV the US campaign is no longer your only option. And now there is a very good Soviet sub campaign under development there as well.

SHIV's OM, or a version of it, also has a great manual targeting setup by karamazovnew which comes with some good documentation. You might want to check out the threads over there about manual targeting - lots of useful info.

The reason I got into manual targeting in SHIII wasn't because I really wanted to do it so much, but because automatic or officer-assisted targeting were simply too easy. There wasn't really a margin of error, and knowing that the only reason your torpedoes wouldn't hit was because you got spotted or because you forgot to open your bow caps kind of took away from the thrill of the hunt a bit. However for the longest time I thought of manual targeting as a chore and actually developed a habit of just taking snapshots or fan shots. For a long time I used manual targeting, but barely referred to the TDC, preferring instead to get up close to my targets, estimate lead, and fire.

But when I finally did get into complex manual targeting, largely thanks to karamazovnew's interface for SHIV, it seriously grew on me. There is actually quite a bit of excitement in it once doing the math of it becomes automatic rather than a chore. I had some really awesome moments with it, crowning moment being a shot of two torpedoes on two targets in column - both hit, the longest one with a running length from 7145m. That's something to really savour when you get it right - just the fact that you DON'T KNOW if it will hit, and you know that the further you are the less chance... the payoff at the end of the torpedo run is so much better :arrgh!:

If SHIII's automatic/assisted targeting actually had limits and margins of error, I think it'd be much more acceptable. SHV does something fairly interesting with "automatic" targeting, but the main problem there is that it's completely useless for longer-range shots.

You hit the nail on the head here.

Guaranteed success kills the challenge, and eventualy deadens the excitement.
With manual targeting you go back to waiting, and hoping YOU got it right.
It puts the "wow" back into things.
Or simetimes the "what happenned?".

Agreed. I hate things being too easy to come by. So I'm learning manual targeting. Last night I practiced more without the map contacts. Interesting indeed...and wasn't too bad. I was able to sink the target. But it was lots of work to keep track of it as I planned my intercept. I'm not sure I'm ready to do without the "God's eye" view just yet. I'll see.

While I'm at it, I had tried the link to the community manual. But when I click on the Silent Hunter 3 link nothing comes up. Any ideas? Thanx for your help.

Plus it allows you to bring your swearing to a new level when you realize you forgot to set your bearing after that last stern shot. :haha: