Thank you Ducimus

I've got it downloaded and I'm going to try it but I need some more time against the stock AI so I have something to compare it against.

Well the only thing I have had time to try since installing this has been a mission to sneak into Scapa and destroy a capitol ship. I got away with it very easily I thought, sank a Hood BC and Queen E BB. Barely caused a stir. On the way out one DD did latch on to me and give me some damage but I was able to slip away.

I will keep testing and let you know more. :up:

If deadly was your card, you got 'em. Man, thanks a lot for this one, I am on my first patrol and suddenly I'm enjoying this a lot. I'm having a bit of a problem with getting my hydrophone man to track the (seems to be a stock bug), so that's a bit of a pain; I also find that now AI sends reinforcements to attack, so I hope you do orient it primarily towards scenarios with multiple ships in contact.

Otherwise I'm really intrigued by the AI in this game. Now that it's not blind, the way it behaves is really interesting. Even in early war, I find them rolling up to me with caution and dropping single charges instead of whole barrages for a while, then suddenly turning and laying down a whole line, but a bit off target. It seems like they have a much more varied set of behaviours thanks to scripts now. If you can keep adding to those, all the power to you.

Big potential. Honestly, it's been nearly forever since I enjoyed the escapes this much in SH.

As one criticism though - especially with multiple escorts attacking, I do find the active sonar "cone" a little too, well, not conical. How wide did you set it to? It seems to me like they cover well over 180 degrees with it.

On the other hand, somewhat to my surprise, I discovered that while the escorts are now certainly good at sticking to me and laying down depth charges, the damage model for the submarine is... well, really easy. I've not really had a single problem so far even from relatively near misses - not even a leak. The DDs are doing their job, maybe a little too well, but there's almost no damage as a result...

Yes, thats a completely seperate issue. Ive thought about it, but this is best done by a mod that covers PLAYER sensors as apposed to AI sensors.


If you mean the width (min/max bearing) of the sonar beam as shown on the map, i didn't touch that. That is stock. I can tell you from past experience (like say... pre GWX 1.03) that narrowing the width of the beam isn't going to work out so well. The AI acutally needs the extra bit to overcome its flashlight beam styled projection. Narrow the beam too much, and it results in a nerfed AI, you wont be in the beam long enough for you to regester as a contact. This is one of those cases where historically correct specifications need to be set aside by virtue of game mechanics. W

hat i did alter was the min/max elevation. you wont see this drawn on the map, its verticle in nature, not horizontal. It is, in short, the downward angle of the beam. Increasing it does two things. Makes it so you have to dive deeper to get under the beam, and increases the accuracy of depth charge attacks. The more downward elevation, the deeper you have to go to get under it, and the more accurate the AI becomes.

For the first two active sonars, the downward elevation is 100. As a point of comparision, all JP sonars in SH4 had this. I adusted them to.. if i remember correctly, 112 or 118. Here for the first two allied active sonar, i made them 120 degrees max elevation with Later war allied sonars have 130 and 155 degrees downward elevation. I am considering upping the early war sonars to 130, since they have such limited max range. (1200 and 1500 meters respectively for the first two allied active sonar)


Sub damage model is out of the scope of this mod. I won't be altering the damage of the depth charges either. Im leaving the damage statistics as/is because damage numbers tend to be scaled with the existing damage model. If i altered the damage stats, i could be offsetting what balance there is. I did , and probably will again, alter the explosion radius. As opposed to how much damage the explosion does, ill just make it cover a wider area. Currently the damage radius is incredibly small. Ubi seems to have done a complete 180. In stock SH3 and Sh4, the min/max radius is 4.5, to 50 as i recall. meaning that the depth charge does full damage, up to a radius of 4.5 meters. The depth charge will do damage up to 50 meters, but from 4.5 meters out wards of 50, damage is reduced, doing the most damage closer to 4.5 , and the least at 50.... diminishing returns.

If i recall SH5's numbers correctly, The min damage radius was TWO meters, with a max range of FOUR!!!. My kneejerk reaction was to increase it to a min of 4.5 meters, and a max of 18... the same stats i used in TMO. However, to err on the side of caution, i increased it to 4.5 as a min, and 12 at a maximum. So i may enlarge the explosion radius later, but for now, i thought to play it safe since so little is known about the damage model. That and i noticed depth charge damage is completely different from the previous games and Armor peircing value of 20 is being used where as before it was not. So again, i decided to be cautious.


Thats some of my thinking behind what ive posted so far. Just so you know where im coming from. Further feedback is appreciated!

I agree that it is a bit weak, I had one go off right next to my hull that should have been game over. I did get a "pressure hull damaged" message followed very quickly by one saying it was repaired. Still showed 100%.

A bit off topic for this mod, but one thing I liked was that it seems the interior damage model is fairly well done, as in you get leaks where you should. I won't describe how I was stupid enough to have this happen, but I had a DD clip my conning tower. Hit me hard enough to roll me almost on my side, and I had reports of flooding, and I got the guys working on it. I could hear, but not see the leaks.. I went right through the boat.. then I noticed I was getting spray on my view passing under the ladder.. I climbed up and some of the valves up there were spraying. It is so unusual for such things to be correct I never thought to look up there lol. It was a pleasant surprise.

Ok, ill be upping the damage radius a bit more. I thought it was still too low, but was playing it safe and not going bonkers with expanding it.

Just tested your mod against two late war elite DDs.
They now behave as I expect them to.

You improved the game another 100%. Thank you very much!

Ok, i knew crew ratings were important when adjusting the AI, and i knew crew ratings 0 through 2 were relatively useless, i just didn't know it make such a HUGE difference when put in terms of numbers. I suspect the devs did something new with crew ratings.

I really have to hand it to the devs, they've done some great improvements with AI detection, and the new user sensor rendering in the map is makinig it ALOT easier to gauge what is doing what.

Now as adjusting the visual sensors are concerned, there is acutally not a whole lot i can do because of crew ratings. Adjusting crew ratings is out of scope of this mod. That falls on campaign writers.

So heres some data to chew on.
(All numbers plus or minus 200 meters or so.)

Test run 1: Daylight
Parameters:
- Stock AI settings
- Player sub bows on to a destroyer at a distance of 15KM away.
- Wind speed at 15 kts
- No fog.


Results:
Destroyer crew rating 0: -> Max visual distance of 6700 meters.
Destroyer crew rating 1: -> Max visual distance of 7800 meters.
Destroyer crew rating 2: -> Max visual distance of 9200 meters.
Destroyer crew rating 3: -> Max visual distance of 12,500 meters.
Destroyer crew rating 4: -> Max visual distance of 13,700 meters.

Test run 2: Night time
Parameters:
- Stock AI settings
- Player sub bows on to a destroyer at a distance of 15KM away.
- Wind speed at 15 kts
- No fog.


Results:
Destroyer crew rating 0: -> Max visual distance of 550 meters.
Destroyer crew rating 1: -> Max visual distance of 850 meters.
Destroyer crew rating 2: -> Max visual distance of 1400 meters.
Destroyer crew rating 3: -> Max visual distance of 4300 meters.
Destroyer crew rating 4: -> Max visual distance of 6700 meters.


Special note about night time:
The devs included a new variable that directly allows you to control night time visibilty, instead of a flat reduction you couldn't adjust. This is a HUGE improvement, espeically when you consider the variance in crew ratings. That means in Sh5, you'll be able to do night surface attacks like never before.

But here is a problem:
If i adjust the visual sensors to improve the lower crew ratings, then ill make the higher crew ratings overpowered.

If i adjust the visual sensors to decrease the upper crew ratings, then ill make the lower end crew ratings even dumber!

I've often cited that alot of files are interrelated when it comes to modding a Silent hunter game, and this is a great example. Because to get a baseline of performance, this means i have to change crew ratings in the campaign file. I am not going there. So i think the best thing to do, is to return the AI visuals to stock settings, and leave crew ratings to the campaign writers.

Special note on aircraft:
They are subject to the above numbers, which is why they don't attack, they fly too fast, and by the time the detection time has expired in order to regester asjhaving sighted you, your already out of their visual range due to their velocity. Thankfully the devs put in a visual sensor that is just being used by battleships, and it is huge in max visual range., Im going to use that sensor on aircraft to increase their visual range, so you should see more of a response from them in the next update.

Just installing this, it's sure to up the realism a few notches :up:

And very important info there Ducimus, thanks.

Ok, i did a test again, this time with one poor and one novice DD.
They seem a tad too good for my liking. Veteran and elite feel just right IMO.

My problems are mostly in depth-restricted settings. I can't even lose more than one "poor" DD in 100m of water. A pair of them WOULD be guaranteed death... unfortunately for them, I find that the probability of even a damaging DC hit on a sub traveling straight at 90m and slow ahead without manuevering is about once per hour. Hopefully a radius extension will help this.

Otherwise my main issue is active sonar operation on multiple ships in depth-restricted settings. They're able to ping at 120 degrees or more off bow, and aspect doesn't seem to throw them off within about a mile's range (i.e. showing bow/stern to them doesn't throw off the pinging). Would it perhaps be possible to get aspect/surface area to factor more into active sonar detection, assuming you don't want to reduce the detection cone? Just to have some sort of mechanism for breaking contact - otherwise as I say, with two escorts, you have to be very deep for them to even briefly lose you.

Hello Guys,

I thank you for the good job, I like the mod :woot:

Now I want to improve and test by my self...

but I can`t open and work with the files because I don`t no which programm to use !!

can anybody tell me wich program is good for open and worke with "DC_barrels" and so on ??

I would be very happy with an download link :D

thank you ^^

Hi Ducimus

Good to see you're back. We really need you - and of course all other modders - here.
As it's Sunday, I'll be able to take some time to test your work.

Thanks a lot for all you've done for this community!