Kapitan I agree with you and in DW mission designers should take into account the particularities of the FFG.
Nontheless my experience has been that mission designers generally consider the frigate as a reduced Arleigh Burke and you wouldn't believe the missions where a poor frigate alone has to contend with several incoming volleys of 8 ASM just because you need to have subs vs frigates. Of course the frigate never has a chance for survival in the first place.
Its dumb, really dumb.

The only way to survive a volly like that is 1) turn quick weps launch on 2) be very very quick at launching the SM-2.

Reality lies that the perry against ever the 688's with VLS doesnt stand a chance it wouldnt even stand a chance against a russian trantul corvette the perry is a real limited ASW platform hence why the USN utalises it in littoral waters against things like kilo's because most kilo's dont carry ASM's its only now that its starting to be refitted to carry klub.

When designing the mission you need to consider exactly what the unit can do putting a perry against a kirov would be ludacrus, the perry is at home in a battle group where it is protected by ASUW capible units so it can concentrate on its task of ASW.

and the perrys operate well in a SAG only when put together with a burke or tico (or indeed any other ASUW unit).

What i dont understand is why dont navies build something like the type 23 which is full multi role, it has sea dart VLS for shooting down air threats and missiles it has harpoons for engaging ships, and helo for ASW operations as well as its sonar and also ship board torpedos.

if you put all that plus a bit more into one hull wouldnt it work out cheaper to build 50 of them have one manitinance crew one type of ship that can do everything than have 25 ASW units on manitnance crew and another mantinance crew for the ASUW ship?

Build everything into a cruiser hull and well you have one ship that does the job of 2.

I'm going to go ahead and step into the frying pan here. I think you both are severely underestimating the potential of the Perry in DW. I disagree that it is a "lightweight" and that "it wouldn't even stand a chance against a Russian Trantul corvette." DW's Perry has been upgraded quite a bit from it's real-life counterpart...

The FFG's Mk-13 fires the SM-2, a supersonic missile that can attack anything that floats or flies. To be honest, most ships don't even get a chance to detect the missile before it hits them, and when you consider that it can be fired at large targets from more than 20 miles away, you should be able to remain safe from any naval gun (yes, even from an Udaloy-I's ridiculously long range 3.9-inch guns).

The CIWS can handle almost any threat (salvos of Silkworms to supersonic SS-N-19s), and can even stand up to a couple SS-N-27s. It's hardly the system you make it out to be. Oh, and did I mention it's automatic, so you can concentrate on using the SM-2? :yep:

Oh, it also carries TWO MH-60 helicopters, which you can use to engage sea, subsurface, and land targets, or use as an extended sensor platform all from more than 20 miles away.

The 3-inch gun is nothing to complain about, and it's 10 mile range is adequate. It's not likely that you'll hit a target from farther than that unless he enjoys making himself a target by driving in a straight line (hint, hint) for long periods of time.

Oh, and Kap, about that "ludicrous" idea of pitting a Perry against a Kirov, well Molon Labe had a video somewhere of him doing just that and winning without a scratch. Can't seem to find it, though...

:yeah:

@ ASWnut101 : I didn't say the Perry didn't have any defenses. Of course it has a layered defense system.
The point is its survivability against a missile volley (or even getting hit by one single missile) is less than that of the Udaloy. And even then the Udaloy and Perry can't do squat against players shooting in your direction up to 10 missiles (in a completely unrealistic way but what can you do about it ? ) :shifty: :down:
One small missile can completely disable a Perry, against an Udaloy it wouldn't happen. And in DW this affects playability in a negative sense.
Now in terms of long range sensors, yes you talk about the helos.
But guess what, up until last week the helos of the Perry were constrained to 20 nm because further away and you lose control. This limit is in Lwami, its in Alfa Tau and thank goodness was eliminated in DWX.
50 nm should provide a good ASW projection screen.

I know you didn't say that. I never said you did say that it didn't (:O:).

Anyway, we're still comparing apples to oranges here. The Perry is a frigate. The Udaloy is a destroyer. I hope it's more survivable, but even if it is, it does not in any way mean that the Perry's defenses are inadequate. What I'm getting across is that the Perry, with it's seemingly lacking armament, can still hold it's own against large threats such as missile-armed destroyers.

And with the whole "10 missiles" thing, again, unless they are advanced, sea-skimming supersonic ASMs (like the -27s), the Perry will still be able to defend itself. Chaff will lure some away, the SM-2s will pick off most at long range, letting the CIWS mop up the rest that get through.

One more thing. The whole "20 mile limit" on the helos only applies when they stop. When they move, they do so at greater altitude, thus extending the range at which you can use them. Besides, a sub at greater than 20 miles isn't much of a threat to you, and you aren't much of a threat to it, helo or no helo. Get in there and do your job, you're an ASW boat after all! :)

The only thing about the Perry in the stock version or LWAMI is that it is a fictional platform (nowhere can we find an OHP with only SM2 as SAM).

As I said in an earlier post, either we have one tha existed before i.e. DWX with the SM1 or add the ESSM as wel to make them an Adelaide class.

Against surface the SM1 can be use with the same capability as the SM2 based on the radar horizon range (approx 20NM). That platform is a thing of the past but can still be used in the game (talking US platforms of course).

So What I would like to see (personnally) is a choice of two drivable OHP: 1- Australian Adelaide (adding a weapons loadout of 32 ESSMs in addition with the SM2 - with no real need of seeing those leaving from the 8 vertical cells); or
2- Pre 2000 US OHP or Greek, Polish, Turkey... OHP with the DWX loadout (SM1).

..Just what I would like to see!!

I'm with you on the beefed up AAW defense, but I really like the idea of being able to extend helo ops beyond 20-30nm. CZ's occur in DW only at 30nm intervals, so as it stands now it's quite impossible (RA notwithstanding) to prosecute a sub in a CZ, which might as well be an unimplemented feature. SSGNs are, by the way, a threat outside of 20nm.

Oh, and here's the replay of the Kirov getting wasted by the Perry.

Good call here, Molon!!!

I didn't even take that into consideration (yet).. then again, DWX isn't priority at the moment; have other things going on . :D

Probably won't start looking into design until next release of RA. But when the time comes, I'll keep this in mind.. :salute:

The ASROC needs to be fixed in the game.. Since it has been a long while since I played DW, I am just learning about the new mods and whether things like this were done.. In the original game for example, ASROC flies to a flight level that is not even close to reality not to mention its payload drop height...

Spruances and CG's carried ASROC in launchers (I know because I was an STG-2 United States Navy (Sonar Technician Surface)). Perry class however were as good if not a bit better than Spruance for ASW due to the tail.. Spruance did not get a tail until later refits but instead relied on the SQS-53B and SQR-18 suite interconnected with initially two SeaSprite ASW birds and later the LAMPS birds.

ASROC though have a very short range, better than the tubes but still.... Had we launched in war time under 'certain' conditions, we would not have survived.... due to the 'configuration' of ASROC depending on the situation.

Malakie

I was compairing real life not to DW but in DW with a good skipper berhind the helm yes its possible because the kirov and like wise the burkes and ticos havnt got the art of mass launch, ie where they fire everything at once.

Yes the CIWS is fully automatic im aware i drive the FFG as my main platfrom in game but it does have limits one thing i did learn through is missiles in a salvo if you take one out it can destroy the others too effectivly blowing one up you get rid of say 3 or 4 others in the salvo.

the kirov if we had the game set to real life specs dealing with 24 supersonic cruise missiles from 20 miles plus the kirovs main guns wouldnt stand a chance kirovs purpose is to anhialate anything that floats or flys.

perry is a good ASW platform but compairing them to a kirov or a burke is like trying to compair chalk and cheese, perry is not a primary ASUW platform and the kirov is not a primary ASW unit so therefore both have weaknesses.