I think, respectfully, you're looking at it in the wrong light.

Without being too pretentious, games aren't just a form of entertainment, they are a form of artistic expression too.

Art is not just viewed for amusement, it is used to convey the whole human emotional spectrum.

If Hiroshima was put in the game, it wouldn't be for entertainment, it would (if done correctly), be a respectful rememberance of what a terrible event it was.

For example, while it does not depict real life events, have you ever played Call of Duty 4? At the end of the game, many of the main characters are killed alongside you, and you are powerless to help.

That's not done for amusement, it's done to convey a more serious message to the player.

There's a difference between mature artistic expression and sinking things for fun, though if done carefully and respectfully, it is possible to get across serious and thought-provoking messages to the player through an entertainment medium.

My two cents, anyway :)

What makes any of you think there wasn't a sub their to photo the event if it could, and is still classified Top Secret.

There's still alot of classfied stuff from WWII today.

War is terrible, killing is wrong, etc, etc.

Playing this sim is not war, "sinking" colored pixels is not killing.

e n t e r t a i n m e n t

If something more is taken away from playing, such as knowledge of history, people or events... great.

If using this medium enhances our personal value of human rights and freedom, tremendous.

Gotta take this in perspective.

Just my 1/2 cent worth...

WELCOME ABOARD!:sunny:

Nothing neat about it - we wander like that all the time. Doesn't matter how it starts, but that's how it always ends.

Well said. I agree completely.

It's been discussed before, so it's okay to shy away from it this time. Most of us agree with your summary that it's meant to be a learning experience. I don't think you were overly "bleeding-heart", or overly anything.

On the whole a great summary of the way most of us feel. Fantastic first post. I hope to see more.

It's interesting to me that submarine veterans are also split on the issue of whether war gaming is appropriate. However, the ones who don't have a problem with it are reluctant to offend their fellow vets and the ones who object do so loudly. The surest way not to get any information is to sashay into a veterans' bulleting board, mention that you want some information to include in a Silent Hunter 4 scenario.

Those guys were afraid for their lives. They are very aware that the opinion of many wargamers is that the Japanese were toothless grandpapas. They don't like that. And they have a problem with playing at war anyway. It's an oxymoron to them that lost buddies there and can't conceive of going to war for fun, even if it's not real.

Playing Silent Hunter 4 is a symbolic gesture, and like all symbols, it is prone to ridicule, dismissal as demeaning to its object, trivialization, abuse and neglect.

"It's an oxymoron to them that lost buddies there and can't conceive of going to war for fun, even if it's not real."


I'm from the VN era... a vet.

And for me, as long as no one dies, no blood is let, and it's pixelated, I have no objection whatsoever. :03:

There have been some stimulating comments in this thread, it does make for a good debate.. I suppose many of us will have various opinions on simulations. This may be a bit off subject, but I'd like to add that, for me, when I did play Silent Hunter III, I found it to be a very good game. I would (and still do) get very immersed in my sims, but with SHIII, following my usual fist pumps upon sinking American boats, somehow I found myself feeling a little guilty rooting for the other guys. I realize that seems silly. Just shows to go ya, how these "simulated" games can seem so real sometimes, at least briefly! I was so glad when SH4 came about and I could finally root for the good guys. :up: I doubt I'll ever go back to SH3 for those reasons alone.

Some of you might remember a review of SHII when it came out : The reviewer blasted the game, not because it was buggy as all heck can be, but because you got to play the nazis, who supported slavery.

But there was hope, said the reviewer, as DC was shipping out soon (Hindsight: It took forever) and that would allow you, as the commander of an American destroyer, to blast other people playing the evil Germans out of the water in multiplayer (Hindsight: It didn't. Not for a long time, anyway)

I wish I could find that review; it barely ever mentionned anything about the actual game, just how nazis were, you know, evil.

It's a Sim GAME !!! Not meant for little kids or sceemish adults. :hmph:

I hope a modder has the balls to make an A-bomb go off in Hiroshima at the right time mod.

Real simple no- brainer. If you don't like it , Don't download it.

yeah...sounds like he saw an older generation of movies where the crew goose-steps through a huge, spacious U-Boat and the clean-shaven Prussian captain is in an immaculate uniform all the time.

I don't want to see the A-bomb flash. It'll fry your eyes out.

The blast is just a simple re-work of a Partical Generator.
Create a new Air Unit with an animation of the bomb release
attached to it.
Script it right and you have the whole effect.

Viewing from a sub?
It is very impressive.

Fly in to do a close up and it becomes rather nasty looking
and blotchy.

Adjusting for a 'In the blast radius' view?
It brings my system to it's knees!

It won't mine . Would you consider sending me the mod in a PM.

I would be honored to test and send you back a CLASSIFIED report.

This might have been said before... but its ironic - the Tokyo firebombs killed more people than both atomic bombs.
Just felt like pointing that out... not saying it renders the a-bombs lesser in horrific capability, because it was the fact that one bomb could do so much - the fear factor. That and the fact that war had become so indiscriminate and it lacked true human connection... just push a button and kill thousands.

I see the developer's reasoning behind not showing this event, but I'd show it because of this is supposed to be a WWII simulation, you'd need to include all its events. It would be like cutting out Pearl Harbor if the game started before December 7th, 1941. I'd show it because that's what happened... we need to be reminded... and we should not forget or be sheltered from the reality of history.

I'll let you know.
It might be 'classified information'
:03:
If I decide to submit it.
:hmmm:

Anyway.
I'll have to rebuild it.
I deleted it awhile back.

It's a simple job though.
Once you start playing with Particals?
It can get addicting.
Almost as bad as doing Animations.
:rock:

to soundman and others

in reality the a-bombs were dropped on japan to SAVE lives.

seems strange but i saw something on history channel awhile
back about the US plans for an invasion of Japan that
would have cost ALOT of US soliders their lives.

in fact check out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall
for more info