Why thank you August, I would be so lost without you. Now why don't you go read the last part of the OPs post so you know what I was responding about. It will make more sense. Then come attack me.

So in other words your post was nothing but flame bating is that right flamingboat?

I know what you were responding to. I responded to it myself and you still are talking nonsense, and that's not an attack, just the simple truth.

Saying something you don't like, isn't flamebait. I merely pointed out that Obamas win has thrown some gas on the racist fire.

Just because you are losing your arguement doesn't mean you can throw it in reverse and accuse me of "flaming" you.

No, that's not what you pointed out. You said that all racists are right wing. Now as I pointed out that is just not true. Why try to weasel out of it?

Ok let me restate that, all white racist groups in America are right wing. White racists groups are the subject of this topic. Now I'm talking about the standard documented groups such as the KKK, neo nazis and established white supremacy groups. I don't consider militias or seperatist groups (ala Ruby Ridge) racist automatically unless they say otherwise.

Your problem is that you are always way too encompassing in your pronouncements and that's what gets you into trouble. Saying that white racist groups are right wing is like saying Democrats are Stalinists. You're attempting to define the majority with the fringe minority. But even fringe is misleading when describing people like nazis, kkk or black panthers because it incorrectly implies a connection to the majority.

Y'see son, racist groups like them are not right or left wing. They are "hate wing" because simple hate of things different is what drives them, not some complicated and multi-planked political platform of national issues. They are just as quick to express that hatred against their own race as they are another.

My great grand uncle spent 3 1/2 years in the Army, and participated in 4 major amphibious landings that ultimately resulted in the defeat of the Nazis. Since he was 1st generation born in America, he would have been treated as a traitor, and shot or hung had he been captured. And these racist morons want to celebrate and promote these ideologies.:nope:

Subnuts, as a Constitutionalist at heart personally, we may disagree on issues, but you go right ahead and rip this **censored** down. But do be careful, as I know how ruthlessly bullying these idiots can be. I had to personally deal with 5 of them when they started to harrass my son and his black friend. They didn't for some reason want to tangle with me and my pal, my Jackie Robinson Louisville Slugger. They started cryin' about it bein' unfair, when I said, well boys, 5 against 2 sounds pretty fair to me............ They ended up runnin away with wet crotches on their trousers.

Never had another problem either.

Look at this little condescending insult. I will get in trouble if I proceed to rip you apart limb from limb verbally. My hands are tied unfortunately.

Well I turned 49 about a half an hour ago and i'm feeling my age so if you aren't at least 20 years younger than me i'll take it back.

Either way get past it and read the rest of the post.

Happy Birthday. I'll be nice to you today! Sadly you do have to take it back, barely. Damn I'm depressed now.

Well then i do take it back. Again read the rest of the post.

It's almost like some nazis are needed in order to remind us how wrong that ideology is. It's a bit like the anthrax, plague, etc. that's stored up in the freezers of the disease departments of the government. Some is needed to make antidotes against it.

Nazism and Christianity have as much to do with each other as Hitler and Jesus. You can'T follow both men'S teachings at the same time, you cannot preach racist supremacy and love for thy next like you love yourself at the same time. Thus, you cannot be a Christian Nazi or a Nazi Christian - that is a contradiction in itself.

Being a church member and being Nazi at the same time - that of course can be something different.

Do Western constitutions allow to propagate their own destruction? If so, a major pillar of justification why to defend the state and it'S laws against threats, has fallen. I never believed in unlimited freedom, and I never believed in freedom as a general right. It is an ability that must be learned and trained. Limits to the freedom of speech are set by ethical considerations which - admitted - can be hard to define and agreed on, but the communal defense against self-destruction certainly is one such limit, as is the general principle that your freedom generally has to agree to not boost itself beyond the level where it starts to limit the freedom of others and claims more rights for itself than for the other's freedom - which in principle is nothing else but Kant's categorial imperative.

Also, the state's monopole on violence enters the discussion here.

( On behalf of the german constitution i can point poiut that it sets limits to what is allowed. You are not allowed to call for the destruction of the constitutional order, and every german is given the right to resist and oppose such attempts even with force and violence, if needed. )

So, while in general I agree on free speech, nevertheless the freedom of speech can be abused - and I do not see why this has to be tolerated as well. Unlimited freedoms lead to the ultimate absence of any rules at all. In such a situation, only one rules: the strongest. And that is what we call anarchy. The law of the strongest, and right of free speech, are two totally different things.

Allowing limits to free speech, has it's own risks. But accepting no limits to it, also has it's risk. Recent trends in Europe's cultural self-disbanding and denial of historic identity makes me preferring the first risk over the latter.

Contradiction and religion go hand in hand. Contradiction is unavoidable when you start talking about invisible wizards in the sky that made the earth in 6 days or whatever. I understand where you are comming from but I don't agree. Technically you are correct; however this would be like telling a normal law abiding family they aren't Christians because they rolled up to church in their 60,000$ SUV. How about the pope sitting on his empire of gold built on the blood and sweat of his followers?

I know the neo nazis aren't the standard bearer of the Christian religion but they are on the member roster like it or not.