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-   -   Further Millitary Action Possible? (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=141044)

Thomen 08-21-08 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Times
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomen
Not trying to defend Russia's threats, but it does makes some sense, if you look at it from a Russian point of view.

Base line is this: The Missile defense system basically nullifies the MAD, Mutual Agreed Destruction, that was the status quo during the cold war. Why? Because it leaves Russia and its allies (if there are some) defenseless against first strikes, and decreases their ability to strike back, if an attack should ever come out of the west. And that is, imho what all this noise is about. They see the west developing technology that would make it possible to strike with impunity.

The 10-15 missiles can hardly stop russians from lauching in masse, they are free to develop their own.

That seem to make sense, but add the condition the nuclear forces are in and the number of missiles and warheads that are still under Russian control, there are not that many left that ought to make it thru a missile shield.. hehe

Happy Times 08-21-08 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomen
Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Times
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomen
Not trying to defend Russia's threats, but it does makes some sense, if you look at it from a Russian point of view.

Base line is this: The Missile defense system basically nullifies the MAD, Mutual Agreed Destruction, that was the status quo during the cold war. Why? Because it leaves Russia and its allies (if there are some) defenseless against first strikes, and decreases their ability to strike back, if an attack should ever come out of the west. And that is, imho what all this noise is about. They see the west developing technology that would make it possible to strike with impunity.

The 10-15 missiles can hardly stop russians from lauching in masse, they are free to develop their own.

That seem to make sense, but add the condition the nuclear forces are in and the number of missiles and warheads that are still under Russian control, there are not that many left that ought to make it thru a missile shield.. hehe

Good for us.

Platapus 08-21-08 10:14 AM

I don't think it is the limited numbers of intercepters that is bothering the Russians, it is the radars that are associated with it that have coverage over Russian territory. These radars can be used for more than just defensive missiles.

How would America feel if Russia put a big hockin Phased Array radar on Cuba with the justification that it will be used to guard against Mexico launching Ballistic Missiles against Cuba?

I believe that our reaction would be, what is called in international policy circles as, "going apesh!t"

Remember that Russia does not know what the American foreign policy will be in the future. For that matter the US citizens don't know what the American foreign policy will be in the future.

Russia, like all nations, has both the legal and moral right to take protective measures when faced with actual or potential threats. As long as they keep on their side of the fence they can gnash their teeth all they want.

If they invade Poland... well invading a sovereign nation is just wrong ain't it?

We may not like the Russian reaction to our actions, but it is hardly unreasonable if the tables were turned.

SUBMAN1 08-21-08 10:20 AM

So it is OK to have big friggen monster Radars that are watching the rest of the world, but Russia is a special case? Every country has radars that are watching other countries airspace. Get over it already is what I say to the Russians. It's not like that is going to be much different that a sat flying overhead!

If Cuba put up a friggen monster radar, I don't think anyone would care. The US Airspace is so saturated with RADAR anyway.

-S

Happy Times 08-21-08 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1
So it is OK to have big friggen monster Radars that are watching the rest of the world, but Russia is a special case? Every country has radars that are watching other countries airspace. Get over it already is what I say to the Russians. It's not like that is going to be much different that a sat flying overhead!

If Cuba put up a friggen monster radar, I don't think anyone would care. The US Airspace is so saturated with RADAR anyway.

-S

:rotfl:

Sea Demon 08-21-08 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1
So it is OK to have big friggen monster Radars that are watching the rest of the world, but Russia is a special case? Every country has radars that are watching other countries airspace. Get over it already is what I say to the Russians. It's not like that is going to be much different that a sat flying overhead!

If Cuba put up a friggen monster radar, I don't think anyone would care. The US Airspace is so saturated with RADAR anyway.

-S

Yep. We do know the Russians don't like that big radar. Part of the significance to them is that it negates their ability to conduct a successful first strike against NATO countries. Lots of Early Warning for us. :up: What Russia doesn't consider is that we already have significant Early Warning capabilities with NORAD radars in North America and redundant space based systems. Mr. Putin, we can already see well inside your country. But if Russia is not hostile, is peaceful, and doesn't intend to conduct a nuclear first strike.......what are they worried about? Like was said above, this system would not be able to stop Russia from throwing a massed nuclear missile strike our way. The Russian's systems may not be as reliable as in the old days, but they are still plenty reliable and in significant enough numbers. What they don't like is our added Early Warning. But it really doesn't add much to what we already have in that area.

Kazuaki Shimazaki II 08-21-08 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jumpy
Perhaps so, but when that someone has a reputation as a totalitarian nut-job which precedes them through the ages, you'd expect such a 'reformed character' to show a little understanding and willingness to go a little bit further to demonstrate their good intent, instead of falling back into the old ways and habits of oppression and warmongering rhetoric.

Actually, they tried this stuff for 15 or so years. Poland, Czech ... etc reward them by joining NATO. I can see why they are trying something else now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomen
Not trying to defend Russia's threats, but it does makes some sense, if you look at it from a Russian point of view.

Base line is this: The Missile defense system basically nullifies the MAD, Mutual Agreed Destruction, that was the status quo during the cold war. Why? Because it leaves Russia and its allies (if there are some) defenseless against first strikes, and decreases their ability to strike back, if an attack should ever come out of the west. And that is, imho what all this noise is about. They see the west developing technology that would make it possible to strike with impunity.

Such considerations were what was behind the ABM Treaty and also behind the US's objection to Cyprus gaining S-300s. Of course, when it comes to Russia ... all such calcs went out the window.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Demon
What Russia doesn't consider is that we already have significant Early Warning capabilities with NORAD radars in North America and redundant space based systems.

NORAD radars in North America, thanks to line of sight, can only see missiles as they rise very high, or bombers as they approach. Space based surveillance can spot ICBM flashes as they launch. Neither is comparable to what a high capability radar close to the Russian border can see.

Quote:

Mr. Putin, we can already see well inside your country. But if Russia is not hostile, is peaceful, and doesn't intend to conduct a nuclear first strike.......what are they worried about?
They are worried about how reducing their options in that direction, and how that affects the balance of power.

And before you laugh, I say again, the US has actually accepted and even promoted this viewpoint with Cyprus, and that's b/w nominal NATO allies.


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