Baiting?

I just want to know how you came to such a conclusion.
Is that baiting?

That's the biggest problem with Democracy: if you're going to have true freedom, you have to allow everyone to speak his mind, even if he advocates taking away your freedoms.

com·mu·nism http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/g...una/thinsp.png
–noun
1.a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.
2.(often initial capital letterhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/g...una/thinsp.png) a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.
3.(initial capital letterhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/g...una/thinsp.png) the principles and practices of the Communist party.
4.communalism.

True communism is to be found in definitions 1 and 4, and would be a great way to live if people were perfect. Unfortunately...

Americans usually take 'Communism' to be definition 2, which can cause confusion if you're having a philosophical discussion and the other guy is having a political one.

so·cial·ism http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/g...una/thinsp.png
–noun
1.a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2.procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3.(in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

By these definitions communism and socialism are indeed very similar. On the other hand, most Americans, especially the right wing, don't interpret 'socialism' that way. They take it to mean using government power (as opposed to just government money - an oxymoron in itself) to force programs that the opposition claims "is for the good of all". They see this as tending toward 'CommuSocialism' as practiced by the USSR, which follows 'socialism' definition 3, but in a perverted sort of way.

This is why I disagree with Firewall's observation: it shows the problem of addressing a commonly accepted definition while ignoring the true definition. Nothing wrong with that, but it does lead to some interesting discussions.

Addendum: True democracy and true communism are flip sides of the same coin, one being the political side and the other being the social. But, as James Madison said, "If men were angels, no government would be necessary."

Thanks Letum and Sailor Steve for the definitions. My short definition is this: Communism is the jackbooted version of socialism. Economically they are the same, one is heavy-handed, one isn't.

So I couldn't help but laught at that creature carrying the sign: " I don't want capitalism" I don't want "Communism" I want " National Socialism.":rotfl:

That's the part I've never understood, it's practically the same thing (from an economic point of view). Is it the ethnic/racial purity beliefs that people are attracted to? If that is the case, they need to change their name then, because it has nothing to do with ecomnomics.



I don't want apple pie! I want a pie with apples!

I totally agree. Socialism can be a good thing. You just have to be responsible about it.

I know how easy it is.... you get some nations together and decide to go out for a little socialism. A little welfare here and there never hurt anyone. But then everyone is having a good time and it gets easy to get a little carried away. People start doing 5-year plans or find themselves dancing on the constitution clad only in their economic ideals. When you run out of money to pay for more socialism, you start a tab and figure you'll worry about it later. Some people get a little socialism in them and pick fights with non-socialist countries that just stopped in for a bit of justice reform or to use the Worldbank. Things get out of control in a hurry.

Next thing you know you wake up in bed with a country like North Korea, and can't remember where you parked your economy.


Please use socialism responsibly :know: :up:

As a hard working individual, I 'm opposed to the concept. I think socialism is nice on paper but doesn't work too good in reality. Ask the original pilgrims to the US, it worked out great for them.:up: :dead:

Lol, is this thread about Socialism or the NPD?
As a closet socialist, I have to chime in, but all I could say was allready said.
Problem is, the end of communism was not the end of ideologies.
I always find it funny how the current crisis is always explained by "single faults" instead of questioning why these single faults came to be.
A current banker often sounds uncannily similar to a communist in 1990....
Actually the west german "great consensus" (which is pretty similar to what FDR did in the US) was maybe the way to go, but this model is gone and buried and the only living proponents of it are actually Skybirds dreaded leftist party.
Btw, at University I was a member of the leftist party group, but the main reason for that was chicks... (I can show some photos).
In real life (outside campus), I am still a SPD member, even though I've sworn a thousand times that I leave this party. Hell, my whole family was in it, one of my grand uncles went into concentration camp for it, you can't throw away your whole political family backround for day to day politics.
Also, the SPD has survived the Nazis, it will survive Wolfgang Clement (may he rot in hell)....

But regarding Skybirds original post: Maybe its a generation thing, but I'm against banning everyone. If there's one thing that really puts the US ahead of us (now that we're level in banning Kinder surprise) is that the US political system takes freedom of speech seriously. Every rightist in germany talks about how great the US is.
They mean the wrong thing (stock market, nuclear weapons, the military).
What is really great about the US is not economic, but personal freedom.
We still have to learn a lot from the US there, but sadly we only take over the bad aspects of the US while forgetting our own strenghts.
If somebody is a Nazi, you can't convert him into a democrat by banning his party.
Actually, I think this whole "wehrhafte Demokratie" BS has had its days.
When our politicians were Wily Brandt or Hellmut Schmidt or Walter Scheel, it made sense to let these people limit our freedom of speech for the sake of common good, especially since many original Nazis were still alive and kicking.
Nowadays our politicians are the worst bunch of morons imaginable and they still claim the same rights these real men like Schmidt did.
I'm simply not in the mood to let somebody whose whole archivement in life is based on corruption and careerism dictate me or my countrymen what we are allowed to do or believe in.
If somebody wants to be a Nazi or a Scientologist or a follower of Kim Yong Il, let him. Problem is, that would require our current ruling rabble to get their act together and actually govern this country instead of just earning money for doing nothing.

I hope there is noone mixing neo-nazi and nazi!

The Germans are going to be more proud of their country as others do.
Here is noone running arround screaming ,,Heil Hitler''!

That really is a ridiculous oversimplification and not even an accurate one.
It is both intellectually and factually empty.

@Letum

You must be one of the richest members on SubSim.

Cause you sure as hell got the Fertilizer Market Cornered.:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Exactly what are you objecting to with your snide innuendo?

Do I take it that you don't think it is an oversimplification?

You are quick! That's why I said it was my short definition. and prove me wrong, name one warm/ fuzzy communist nation.

I'm not familiar with german laws, but isn't it illegal to display the swastika?

Communism, Nationalism, Socialism..I do not see Facism. Neo-Nazi's are just plain stupid, if they want to be one then they need to do and think what a real one did.

It makes me laugh when I hear people say we live in a free society. My A$$. Politics, Religion and Race are always going to be a factor in life. Is it right? No but it happens. World never changes.;)